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I don't understand why it's Facebook's role to teach people. Maybe if regulations were instead imposed on school curriculums we wouldn't have dumb adults arguin

I don't understand why it's Facebook's role to teach people. Maybe if regulations were instead imposed on school curriculums we wouldn't have dumb adults arguing about climate change, flat earth or mask wearing. Combat issues at the root not the fruit.

SaltyLemonZest 6y ago
It isn't! When Facebook announced the program [1], they made it clear that they had no interest in becoming arbiters of truth; fact checking was about preventing hoaxes, stories like "5G causes coronavirus" that are just completely and unambiguously made up. The expectation that Facebook fact checkers should intervene in live political controversies was inevitable IMO, but I don't think many people would explicitly endorse the idea that Facebook has to teach people good climate science. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/15/13960062/facebook-fact-check-partnerships-fake-news https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/15/13960062/facebook-fact-c...
jfengel 6y ago
Facebook endumbens people. It's there front and center of the stupidification process, whether it wants to be or not. And it wants to be: it's aware that the mechanisms it uses to attract eyeballs (and thus revenue) favor lies and propaganda over facts. Facts are boring. Proof that your ideological enemies are out to get you is endlessly fascinating. They want to have it both ways, to remain sticky but without having the world become a worse place for it. I'm sure they'd love it if schools didn't also contribute to the increasing gullibility of the US, but that's not something they can control. Their own feeds, by contrast, is something they have power over.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > Facebook endumbens people. It's there front and center of the stupidification process, whether it wants to be or not. Facebook isn't making anyone dumb. They were already dumb; you just didn't notice before.
  - chillacy 6y ago
    For more evidence consider magazines from the front counters of grocery stores. That stuff is at grocery store checkouts, by popularity it's more representative of what people like than say... pg's essays. That Snapchat's (curated!) discover tab looks like that suggests to me that this content really is just popular with people and even human editors recognize that.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    You're correct that they were already dumb, but it does actively remove knowledge from their heads and replaces it with harder-to-budge falsehoods. That sclerosis of the neurons makes them act like people even dumber than their natural state of stupefaction.
    - Gigablah 6y ago
      With Facebook there is at least a chance, however minuscule, that you are exposed to different ideas. With media like Fox News, it’s straight out propaganda. This is what’s causing the polarization; the conspiracy theories and extremism have to come from somewhere. Why go after the symptom and not the cause?
      - jfengel 6y ago
        The cause is all mixed up in cause and effect. Fox News exists because there are people who want it. It amplifies what they believe and gradually pushes them to believe more extreme forms of it, but it's just one part of a huge ecosystem -- politicians, right-wing radio, religious leaders, etc. The common factor all of those have is the population. Facebook doesn't have control of any of those things. The only thing it can control is itself. But it can at least reduce its own part in the way the people and the media perform for each other to be even more extreme. And Facebook is in a rare (if not unique) position to be directly in front of that population: it can't make Fox News go away, but it can put a flag in front of Fox News stories. The "cause" is ultimately the individuals, not the media or the politicians or the wealthy think-tank funders. They don't have mind control. All they can do is appeal to people with what they already want to believe and amplify it -- a process that's been going on for at least four decades. Reversing it will take at least as long. I don't expect FB to solve it, but I do think it's a good idea for them to not allow themselves to be part of it.
tyrust 6y ago
Facebook moderation and education reform are not mutually exclusive.

SaltyLemonZest 6y ago

It isn't! When Facebook announced the program [1], they made it clear that they had no interest in becoming arbiters of truth; fact checking was about preventing hoaxes, stories like "5G causes coronavirus" that are just completely and unambiguously made up. The expectation that Facebook fact checkers should intervene in live political controversies was inevitable IMO, but I don't think many people would explicitly endorse the idea that Facebook has to teach people good climate science. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/15/13960062/facebook-fact-check-partnerships-fake-news https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/15/13960062/facebook-fact-c...

jfengel 6y ago

Facebook endumbens people. It's there front and center of the stupidification process, whether it wants to be or not. And it wants to be: it's aware that the mechanisms it uses to attract eyeballs (and thus revenue) favor lies and propaganda over facts. Facts are boring. Proof that your ideological enemies are out to get you is endlessly fascinating. They want to have it both ways, to remain sticky but without having the world become a worse place for it. I'm sure they'd love it if schools didn't also contribute to the increasing gullibility of the US, but that's not something they can control. Their own feeds, by contrast, is something they have power over.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Facebook endumbens people. It's there front and center of the stupidification process, whether it wants to be or not. Facebook isn't making anyone dumb. They were already dumb; you just didn't notice before.
- chillacy 6y ago
  For more evidence consider magazines from the front counters of grocery stores. That stuff is at grocery store checkouts, by popularity it's more representative of what people like than say... pg's essays. That Snapchat's (curated!) discover tab looks like that suggests to me that this content really is just popular with people and even human editors recognize that.
- jfengel 6y ago
  You're correct that they were already dumb, but it does actively remove knowledge from their heads and replaces it with harder-to-budge falsehoods. That sclerosis of the neurons makes them act like people even dumber than their natural state of stupefaction.
  - Gigablah 6y ago
    With Facebook there is at least a chance, however minuscule, that you are exposed to different ideas. With media like Fox News, it’s straight out propaganda. This is what’s causing the polarization; the conspiracy theories and extremism have to come from somewhere. Why go after the symptom and not the cause?
    - jfengel 6y ago
      The cause is all mixed up in cause and effect. Fox News exists because there are people who want it. It amplifies what they believe and gradually pushes them to believe more extreme forms of it, but it's just one part of a huge ecosystem -- politicians, right-wing radio, religious leaders, etc. The common factor all of those have is the population. Facebook doesn't have control of any of those things. The only thing it can control is itself. But it can at least reduce its own part in the way the people and the media perform for each other to be even more extreme. And Facebook is in a rare (if not unique) position to be directly in front of that population: it can't make Fox News go away, but it can put a flag in front of Fox News stories. The "cause" is ultimately the individuals, not the media or the politicians or the wealthy think-tank funders. They don't have mind control. All they can do is appeal to people with what they already want to believe and amplify it -- a process that's been going on for at least four decades. Reversing it will take at least as long. I don't expect FB to solve it, but I do think it's a good idea for them to not allow themselves to be part of it.

tyrust 6y ago

Facebook moderation and education reform are not mutually exclusive.