5 ms·

Not sure if you're joking but the UNSC is associated with power and prestige. The UK would need to be dragged out of that. Same goes for NATO.

madaxe_again 6y ago
And the U.K. had unprecedented power and control within Europe, and were willing to walk away. The press in the U.K. is attacking UN agencies daily - it would not surprise me in the slightest if the U.K. decided the SC was too constraining, their veto not big enough. Same goes for NATO - the ERG want out, and feel the contributions are an unfair burden. They are right now opaquely “streamlining” the military. How that helps meet the NATO commitment, not clear. Everyone said {the many things that have come to pass over the past few years} would never happen, that it would be an insane choice. At this point, the insane choice is the inevitable choice, so I’d put money (actually, I have, I am shorting sterling, hard, as a hedge) on them leaving both the UN and NATO.
- dTal 6y ago
  >At this point, the insane choice is the inevitable choice At this point I am beginning to wonder what is behind the pattern. Are we witnessing the failure of governments acting in the best national interests because they have finally become fully subverted from within by selfish forces? A common pattern to the madness in the US and the madness in the UK is that an inner circle stand to get very rich from all the goings-on.
- kentrado 6y ago
  Maybe it has something to do with the EU? What I see missing in a lot of this discussions is always a honest critique of the flaws of the EU that may have caused Brexit. The EU has a serious democratic deficit and this will never be resolved.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    > The EU has a serious democratic deficit and this will never be resolved. Somewhat true, but so does the UK with its unelected upper house! Having Ian Botham made a permanent legislator because of his "loyalty" to the Party is not really the stuff of a democratic country. The EU does have flaws, but that's not the basis on which Brexit was fought.
    - blibble 6y ago
      as I'm sure you well know, the Lords is completely subordinate to the Commons (the elected house); it essentially acts as a scrutinising committee the (elected) EU parliament cannot initiate legislation, only the (unelected) commission can EU: the elected parliament is a rubber stamp on the unelected commission's agenda UK: the unelected house is a rubber stamp on the elected house's agenda
      - lhopki01 6y ago
        Considering the head of the Commission and all the Commissioners are chosen by the governments of the EU nations and voted on by the Parliament this is a bit disingenuous. It's a bit like saying that the UK in undemocratic because the civil service drafts the laws.
    - kentrado 6y ago
      That's a tu quoque fallacy. Just because the UK has an unelected upper house doesn't mean that this justifies the EU having a democratic deficit. Two wrongs don't make one right. >The EU does have flaws, but that's not the basis on which Brexit was fought. This is the whole point of my initial comment. You can't just dismiss all criticism of the EU as racist and xenophobic. That just causes more divisiveness and bad will.
- arethuza 6y ago
  The bulk of the Royal Navy (i.e. one carrier and escorts) is apparently going to be based in the "Far East" - I wonder where that idea came from?
  - youngtaff 6y ago
    Yeh, I don't get that either
- michaelt 6y ago
  > Same goes for NATO - the ERG want out, and feel the contributions are an unfair burden. Got a citation for that? My impression is euroskeptics love America and NATO.

madaxe_again 6y ago

And the U.K. had unprecedented power and control within Europe, and were willing to walk away. The press in the U.K. is attacking UN agencies daily - it would not surprise me in the slightest if the U.K. decided the SC was too constraining, their veto not big enough. Same goes for NATO - the ERG want out, and feel the contributions are an unfair burden. They are right now opaquely “streamlining” the military. How that helps meet the NATO commitment, not clear. Everyone said {the many things that have come to pass over the past few years} would never happen, that it would be an insane choice. At this point, the insane choice is the inevitable choice, so I’d put money (actually, I have, I am shorting sterling, hard, as a hedge) on them leaving both the UN and NATO.

dTal 6y ago
>At this point, the insane choice is the inevitable choice At this point I am beginning to wonder what is behind the pattern. Are we witnessing the failure of governments acting in the best national interests because they have finally become fully subverted from within by selfish forces? A common pattern to the madness in the US and the madness in the UK is that an inner circle stand to get very rich from all the goings-on.
kentrado 6y ago
Maybe it has something to do with the EU? What I see missing in a lot of this discussions is always a honest critique of the flaws of the EU that may have caused Brexit. The EU has a serious democratic deficit and this will never be resolved.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > The EU has a serious democratic deficit and this will never be resolved. Somewhat true, but so does the UK with its unelected upper house! Having Ian Botham made a permanent legislator because of his "loyalty" to the Party is not really the stuff of a democratic country. The EU does have flaws, but that's not the basis on which Brexit was fought.
  - blibble 6y ago
    as I'm sure you well know, the Lords is completely subordinate to the Commons (the elected house); it essentially acts as a scrutinising committee the (elected) EU parliament cannot initiate legislation, only the (unelected) commission can EU: the elected parliament is a rubber stamp on the unelected commission's agenda UK: the unelected house is a rubber stamp on the elected house's agenda
    - lhopki01 6y ago
      Considering the head of the Commission and all the Commissioners are chosen by the governments of the EU nations and voted on by the Parliament this is a bit disingenuous. It's a bit like saying that the UK in undemocratic because the civil service drafts the laws.
  - kentrado 6y ago
    That's a tu quoque fallacy. Just because the UK has an unelected upper house doesn't mean that this justifies the EU having a democratic deficit. Two wrongs don't make one right. >The EU does have flaws, but that's not the basis on which Brexit was fought. This is the whole point of my initial comment. You can't just dismiss all criticism of the EU as racist and xenophobic. That just causes more divisiveness and bad will.
arethuza 6y ago
The bulk of the Royal Navy (i.e. one carrier and escorts) is apparently going to be based in the "Far East" - I wonder where that idea came from?
- youngtaff 6y ago
  Yeh, I don't get that either
michaelt 6y ago
> Same goes for NATO - the ERG want out, and feel the contributions are an unfair burden. Got a citation for that? My impression is euroskeptics love America and NATO.