4 ms·

I think you make an excellent point, but I think it is very relevant that basically every institution ever is intended to be long term. Every empire that lasted

by ksdale 6y ago

I think you make an excellent point, but I think it is very relevant that basically every institution ever is intended to be long term. Every empire that lasted a thousand years steamrolled however many other aspiring empires that also wanted to last a thousand years, and every long-lived religion outlasted countless cults that had similar aspirations but died with their founding leader. I agree that long term institutions to tackle long term problems are important, but the intent itself feels almost irrelevant, to me anyway.

simonh 6y ago
Intent may not guarantee success, but I can guarantee it’s necessary for having a chance of it.
- wisty 6y ago
  Replication (or imitation) and mutation in a selective environment can create the illusion of intent without it needing to be present.
- lmm 6y ago
  Can you? I would wager that many long-lived institutions had no particular intention to be long-lived; I could easily believe that it's actually a negative correlation (just as companies that grow big aren't necessarily those that were aiming to grow big).
  - ksdale 6y ago
    This is what I was thinking. Institutions that last a long time are those that are effective in accomplishing their mission and passing knowledge down from generation to generation (which they very well might do simply to be effective), and this doesn’t necessarily have to have anything to do with their intentions regarding longevity.
- gibspaulding 6y ago
  I believe I read somewhere that when the framers wrote the US constitution they expected it would have to be rewritten every generation or so. I wouldn't exactly call the US gov a long term organization at this point, but if that's true (I admit I'm struggling to find a source right now, so correct me if I'm wrong) then the current form of the US government does seem to have survived beyond it's original intent.
mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
> basically every institution ever is intended to be long term Well, except all of the ones that aren't. Someone opening a chain of sandwich shops might not be overly concerned with whether they're around in a few millennia, just as the cult leaders you refer to may have in actuality been much more focused in both intent and action on ensuring that their institutions paid off for them personally for the duration of their lifetimes than in their actual long term durability.

by ksdale 6y ago

simonh 6y ago

Intent may not guarantee success, but I can guarantee it’s necessary for having a chance of it.

wisty 6y ago
Replication (or imitation) and mutation in a selective environment can create the illusion of intent without it needing to be present.
lmm 6y ago
Can you? I would wager that many long-lived institutions had no particular intention to be long-lived; I could easily believe that it's actually a negative correlation (just as companies that grow big aren't necessarily those that were aiming to grow big).
- ksdale 6y ago
  This is what I was thinking. Institutions that last a long time are those that are effective in accomplishing their mission and passing knowledge down from generation to generation (which they very well might do simply to be effective), and this doesn’t necessarily have to have anything to do with their intentions regarding longevity.
gibspaulding 6y ago
I believe I read somewhere that when the framers wrote the US constitution they expected it would have to be rewritten every generation or so. I wouldn't exactly call the US gov a long term organization at this point, but if that's true (I admit I'm struggling to find a source right now, so correct me if I'm wrong) then the current form of the US government does seem to have survived beyond it's original intent.

mandelbrotwurst 6y ago

> basically every institution ever is intended to be long term Well, except all of the ones that aren't. Someone opening a chain of sandwich shops might not be overly concerned with whether they're around in a few millennia, just as the cult leaders you refer to may have in actuality been much more focused in both intent and action on ensuring that their institutions paid off for them personally for the duration of their lifetimes than in their actual long term durability.