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Oh make no mistake, I am very familiar with those slides. PRISM is not a VPN with a SQL client, or anything close to it. The second one does not refer to dome

Oh make no mistake, I am very familiar with those slides. PRISM is not a VPN with a SQL client, or anything close to it. The second one does not refer to domestic hacking. They don’t do that.

satisfaction 6y ago
I don't imagine they have raw sql access but you probably have an API that takes a name or social or other identifier and returns relevant results. This access may have been granted to an account that is not described as "FBI" it's probably another sub-contractor or analytics provider.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  You are incorrect. None of the companies we are talking about would build this backdoor interface and grant access like that to a shell company or contractor. If they wouldn’t do it for the TLAs directly, why on earth would they do it for a third party?
  - MagnumOpus 6y ago
    > why on earth would they do it for a third party - Legally: They get served a NSL with a gag order forcing them to add the backdoor without telling you, on penalty of prison time - Extra-legally: They get blackmailed by a TLA do add access and cover it up, or else. ("They" is not necessarily the company's CEO/CTO, but a sufficiently senior DBA/network admin.)
throwaway5370 6y ago
> The second one does not refer to domestic hacking. They don’t do that. What do you believe is happening in that second image? One could argue semantics as to whether a fiber tap is "hacking" or not, or whether tapping a domestic company's network from an international transit link counts as "domestic hacking"... but there is ample evidence that US intelligence agencies do target domestic companies and their networks. See also, the rest of the docs on MUSCULAR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program...
- aerostable_slug 6y ago
  There's also ample evidence that various companies choose to cooperate with the intelligence community for a variety of reasons. AT&T has made a healthy living off .gov, but I'm not sure Western Union was ever compensated for giving CIA decades' worth of international telegrams, and it appears their recent cooperation with the Agency regarding international money transfers was spurred by patriotism. Since the links are likely compromised, ubiquitous encryption is your friend.

Oh make no mistake, I am very familiar with those slides. PRISM is not a VPN with a SQL client, or anything close to it. The second one does not refer to domestic hacking. They don’t do that.

satisfaction 6y ago

I don't imagine they have raw sql access but you probably have an API that takes a name or social or other identifier and returns relevant results. This access may have been granted to an account that is not described as "FBI" it's probably another sub-contractor or analytics provider.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
You are incorrect. None of the companies we are talking about would build this backdoor interface and grant access like that to a shell company or contractor. If they wouldn’t do it for the TLAs directly, why on earth would they do it for a third party?
- MagnumOpus 6y ago
  > why on earth would they do it for a third party - Legally: They get served a NSL with a gag order forcing them to add the backdoor without telling you, on penalty of prison time - Extra-legally: They get blackmailed by a TLA do add access and cover it up, or else. ("They" is not necessarily the company's CEO/CTO, but a sufficiently senior DBA/network admin.)

throwaway5370 6y ago

> The second one does not refer to domestic hacking. They don’t do that. What do you believe is happening in that second image? One could argue semantics as to whether a fiber tap is "hacking" or not, or whether tapping a domestic company's network from an international transit link counts as "domestic hacking"... but there is ample evidence that US intelligence agencies do target domestic companies and their networks. See also, the rest of the docs on MUSCULAR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program...

aerostable_slug 6y ago
There's also ample evidence that various companies choose to cooperate with the intelligence community for a variety of reasons. AT&T has made a healthy living off .gov, but I'm not sure Western Union was ever compensated for giving CIA decades' worth of international telegrams, and it appears their recent cooperation with the Agency regarding international money transfers was spurred by patriotism. Since the links are likely compromised, ubiquitous encryption is your friend.