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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/ConeMosaics.jpg/300px-ConeMosaics.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Co...

by ajuc 6y ago

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/ConeMosaics.jpg/300px-ConeMosaics.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Co... Rods in eyes aren't on a regular grid anyway, why should it matter how the pixels are distributed as long as they cover the plane and are mostly uniform?

mumblemumble 6y ago
Because of what was mentioned way up in the original question: The capsules not being precisely arranged means that they can't be individually addressable. Meaning that you can't use the trick that non-epaper screens typically use where each "pixel" is actually a tightly packed cluster of individual red, green and blue sources that are individually controlled. So instead, each cell is capable of displaying any color, and they've got a more complicated refresh mechanism that they use to "write" to them. And the upshot of that is listed in the specifications from the linked page: The refresh time on this display is 15 seconds. Which is far, far away from where it would need to be in order to be a practical option for color e-readers.
- bduerst 6y ago
  Except you can do multiple colors, by introducing differently charged pigments inside the capsules: - https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_Cup_E.gif https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_Cup_E.gif - https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_ACeP_E.gif https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_ACeP_E.gif Refresh rate was always an issue, but it is gradually improving. For static reading it's not a problem.
- mycall 6y ago
  > Meaning that you can't use the trick that non-epaper screens typically use where each "pixel" is actually a tightly packed cluster of individual red, green and blue sources that are individually controlled If there was a way to mix the inks and have them 100% separate by the grid on demand, it could be possible.
- harlanji 6y ago
  I have the 2.7” 3 color (b) hat, and it is very slow with stock code. As far as I know, and from the looks of the Python code, 2 full buffers are transferred for the colors and then a process of wave stimulating the fluids into arrangement are how it works, very conservatively and slow. There has been work done to the firmware to allow partial updates fast enough for animation, but they should be used sparingly to avoid temporary or permanent burn-in, they say.
oceanswave 6y ago
Who designed these ‘eye’ things anyway, sounds like they took a lot of engineering shortcuts and amassed a metric boat-ton of technical debt
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Let it thus be observed that a truly intelligent designer understands how to live comfortably with technical debt.
  - BurningFrog 6y ago
    If I was all-knowing and omnipotent, I'd be OK with that in my code as well.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      Isn't tech debt a sign of not being all knowing and omnipotent?
      - BurningFrog 6y ago
        I don't know.
      - ineedasername 6y ago
        There's always tech debt. It starts to day you build something and ends when it stops being used. How many thousands of python 2.7 programs had "no" tech debt when developed bit now have tons. Tech debt isn't binary, it's a sliding scale.
        abiogenesis 6y ago
        If you were "all knowing", you would've known that Python 3000 would not be backwards compatible and waited until it is released (assuming that you don't have a deadline, such as 7 days).

by ajuc 6y ago

mumblemumble 6y ago

Because of what was mentioned way up in the original question: The capsules not being precisely arranged means that they can't be individually addressable. Meaning that you can't use the trick that non-epaper screens typically use where each "pixel" is actually a tightly packed cluster of individual red, green and blue sources that are individually controlled. So instead, each cell is capable of displaying any color, and they've got a more complicated refresh mechanism that they use to "write" to them. And the upshot of that is listed in the specifications from the linked page: The refresh time on this display is 15 seconds. Which is far, far away from where it would need to be in order to be a practical option for color e-readers.

bduerst 6y ago
Except you can do multiple colors, by introducing differently charged pigments inside the capsules: - https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_Cup_E.gif https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_Cup_E.gif - https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_ACeP_E.gif https://www.eink.com/assets/img/technology/GIF_ACeP_E.gif Refresh rate was always an issue, but it is gradually improving. For static reading it's not a problem.
mycall 6y ago
> Meaning that you can't use the trick that non-epaper screens typically use where each "pixel" is actually a tightly packed cluster of individual red, green and blue sources that are individually controlled If there was a way to mix the inks and have them 100% separate by the grid on demand, it could be possible.
harlanji 6y ago
I have the 2.7” 3 color (b) hat, and it is very slow with stock code. As far as I know, and from the looks of the Python code, 2 full buffers are transferred for the colors and then a process of wave stimulating the fluids into arrangement are how it works, very conservatively and slow. There has been work done to the firmware to allow partial updates fast enough for animation, but they should be used sparingly to avoid temporary or permanent burn-in, they say.

oceanswave 6y ago

Who designed these ‘eye’ things anyway, sounds like they took a lot of engineering shortcuts and amassed a metric boat-ton of technical debt

mumblemumble 6y ago
Let it thus be observed that a truly intelligent designer understands how to live comfortably with technical debt.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  If I was all-knowing and omnipotent, I'd be OK with that in my code as well.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    Isn't tech debt a sign of not being all knowing and omnipotent?
    - BurningFrog 6y ago
      I don't know.
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      There's always tech debt. It starts to day you build something and ends when it stops being used. How many thousands of python 2.7 programs had "no" tech debt when developed bit now have tons. Tech debt isn't binary, it's a sliding scale.
      - abiogenesis 6y ago
        If you were "all knowing", you would've known that Python 3000 would not be backwards compatible and waited until it is released (assuming that you don't have a deadline, such as 7 days).