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> Grind, put in basket, boil water and in the meantime level coffee in basket and put metal screen on top, once water boils pour in basket, then make the espres

> Grind, put in basket, boil water and in the meantime level coffee in basket and put metal screen on top, once water boils pour in basket, then make the espresso. What grind setting? Temperature fluctuations matter - too hot and the coffee tastes burnt. Pressure changes the profile. The key to good espresso is consistency - for someone who is using a manual, typically they have experience with espresso. They think surely it is easy, the way a math PHD thinks calculus is easy. But it isn't that easy - and once you realize you need a good grinder and not a baratza encore, you'll see the cost further increase. Also, manuals lack a steam wand which is a real downside.

stinos 6y ago
Apart from drinking it, I had zero experience with Espresso before getting the machine. Yes grind setting matters (though it would make no sense for me to tell you what grind setting I use because it's an arbitrary number, specific to the brand/type and sometimes even unique to the grinder), and temperature, and pressure, and amount of coffee. But from day 1 I could produce consistent shots by keeping those variables the same in between shots which isn't rocket science so I still think your comparision with a PHD is a bridge too far, it's really not that hard. Ok I'm a handy engineering type, but if you read on forums it's pretty clear: people without those skills also manage to produce consistent shots. You could blame that on confirmation bias, but: have you ever tried a manual machine yourself and got a decent espresso out of it? you'll see the cost further increase Of course. But making consistent espresso without a decent grinder, now that's hard, so you know on beforehand it's in the price. And a grinder lasts years or decades and it's pretty likely a decent manual machine does so as well. Also, manuals lack a steam wand which is a real downside. Only if you want it, which I don't.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  There is no way for me to tell if your espresso is good, or not. It might be good enough for you and for you that is great - but don't let your survivorship bias be an argument for "it's easy anyone can do it." That was the point. > but: have you ever tried a manual machine yourself and got a decent espresso out of it? Oh I have. This is my manual, well, the older version: https://www.cerinicoffee.com/products/olympia-cremina-sl https://www.cerinicoffee.com/products/olympia-cremina-sl. I like to experiment a lot with it and have a pressure gauge attachment on the top. You can certainly get good espresso out of it - that isn't my point. my point is, it isn't as easy as people think - and you far overestimate based on hobbyists on coffee forums (of course they produce good shots, they're hobbyists) and people who just want coffee. > Only if you want it, which I don't. Well of course - but that is a downside that would turn off a lot of people.
  - stinos 6y ago
    "it's easy anyone can do it." Those are not my words though, I was merely giving some alternative view because your posts make it sound (to me) like it's not easy at all. olympia-cremina Would have to compare irl, but from the looks and manual that does actually look a bit harder than the Robot which is the most basic it can get.

stinos 6y ago

Apart from drinking it, I had zero experience with Espresso before getting the machine. Yes grind setting matters (though it would make no sense for me to tell you what grind setting I use because it's an arbitrary number, specific to the brand/type and sometimes even unique to the grinder), and temperature, and pressure, and amount of coffee. But from day 1 I could produce consistent shots by keeping those variables the same in between shots which isn't rocket science so I still think your comparision with a PHD is a bridge too far, it's really not that hard. Ok I'm a handy engineering type, but if you read on forums it's pretty clear: people without those skills also manage to produce consistent shots. You could blame that on confirmation bias, but: have you ever tried a manual machine yourself and got a decent espresso out of it? you'll see the cost further increase Of course. But making consistent espresso without a decent grinder, now that's hard, so you know on beforehand it's in the price. And a grinder lasts years or decades and it's pretty likely a decent manual machine does so as well. Also, manuals lack a steam wand which is a real downside. Only if you want it, which I don't.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
There is no way for me to tell if your espresso is good, or not. It might be good enough for you and for you that is great - but don't let your survivorship bias be an argument for "it's easy anyone can do it." That was the point. > but: have you ever tried a manual machine yourself and got a decent espresso out of it? Oh I have. This is my manual, well, the older version: https://www.cerinicoffee.com/products/olympia-cremina-sl https://www.cerinicoffee.com/products/olympia-cremina-sl. I like to experiment a lot with it and have a pressure gauge attachment on the top. You can certainly get good espresso out of it - that isn't my point. my point is, it isn't as easy as people think - and you far overestimate based on hobbyists on coffee forums (of course they produce good shots, they're hobbyists) and people who just want coffee. > Only if you want it, which I don't. Well of course - but that is a downside that would turn off a lot of people.
- stinos 6y ago
  "it's easy anyone can do it." Those are not my words though, I was merely giving some alternative view because your posts make it sound (to me) like it's not easy at all. olympia-cremina Would have to compare irl, but from the looks and manual that does actually look a bit harder than the Robot which is the most basic it can get.