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> avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy I was always able to get something I enjoyed d

> avoid manual espresso machines - even with consistent top quality semi-auto machines good espresso is not easy I was always able to get something I enjoyed drinking out of an entry level, single boiler, home espresso machine. It was also fun and meditative learning the skill and doing the routine. I'd take a less than perfect home espresso over just endless other brewed methods. I love an occasional pour-over, but not every day. Everyone always says to avoid it, and that's true if you can't envisage doing it a couple of times a day (in which case, the cost and kitchen workspace requirements make it silly), but personally, I'd take an 80% espresso at home over not.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
You are like me, espresso is worth it to us. But to many it is not. The space, cost, difficulty to achieve good coffee...most people just want their coffee.
- wastedhours 6y ago
  True, but if you're ok with an 70-80% good espresso, it's much more attainable at £200 for a cheapy machine and entry level burr grinder than some comments imply. It might be more worth it to someone to enter at this price point than having to pay for semi-pro gear as the "you can't get good espresso at home" comments suggest. I just don't want people who might want an alright drink at home to be put off, you can get ok results at home with cheap equipment. It won't be as good as what you can get with a GS/3 and a Sette, but won't be too bad.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    > it's much more attainable at £200 for a cheapy machine and entry level burr grinder than some comments imply. The number one complaint I get from new hobbyists is "some shots are amazing and some aren't, why?" It's almost always using a stepped burr grinder, like the Baratza encore, for espresso. It just doesn't produce consistent enough grinds and because it's stepped sometimes it will be impossible to dial in. > I just don't want people who might want an alright drink at home to be put off, you can get ok results at home with cheap equipment. It won't be as good as what you can get with a GS/3 and a Sette, but won't be too bad. The problem is the consistency - you'll have more bad shots than good. I always tell people get a cheaper machine and a better grinder and you'll be better of for it. I don't want to turn anyone off either. But I know quite a few people who have went down the rabbit whole to be upset.
    - wastedhours 6y ago
      Fair points, and I think we're arguing around a few percentage points of anecdata on either end. > you'll have more bad shots than good For me, using a basic machine and a stepped burr grinder I had substantially more "ok" and "good" shots than "bad" ones. I guess it depends on your tolerance, but whilst it might not have been absolutely consistent, it was well within an acceptable percentage of good.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago

You are like me, espresso is worth it to us. But to many it is not. The space, cost, difficulty to achieve good coffee...most people just want their coffee.

wastedhours 6y ago
True, but if you're ok with an 70-80% good espresso, it's much more attainable at £200 for a cheapy machine and entry level burr grinder than some comments imply. It might be more worth it to someone to enter at this price point than having to pay for semi-pro gear as the "you can't get good espresso at home" comments suggest. I just don't want people who might want an alright drink at home to be put off, you can get ok results at home with cheap equipment. It won't be as good as what you can get with a GS/3 and a Sette, but won't be too bad.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  > it's much more attainable at £200 for a cheapy machine and entry level burr grinder than some comments imply. The number one complaint I get from new hobbyists is "some shots are amazing and some aren't, why?" It's almost always using a stepped burr grinder, like the Baratza encore, for espresso. It just doesn't produce consistent enough grinds and because it's stepped sometimes it will be impossible to dial in. > I just don't want people who might want an alright drink at home to be put off, you can get ok results at home with cheap equipment. It won't be as good as what you can get with a GS/3 and a Sette, but won't be too bad. The problem is the consistency - you'll have more bad shots than good. I always tell people get a cheaper machine and a better grinder and you'll be better of for it. I don't want to turn anyone off either. But I know quite a few people who have went down the rabbit whole to be upset.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    Fair points, and I think we're arguing around a few percentage points of anecdata on either end. > you'll have more bad shots than good For me, using a basic machine and a stepped burr grinder I had substantially more "ok" and "good" shots than "bad" ones. I guess it depends on your tolerance, but whilst it might not have been absolutely consistent, it was well within an acceptable percentage of good.