4 ms·

Or online. Cheaper and less frostbite for kids in places with extreme winter conditions.

klyrs 6y ago
I have a rambunctious 4yo entering kindergarten this year. He needs direct attention of a present human, not a screen to watch.
- mmm_grayons 6y ago
  That sounds like he needs childcare, not education. That is the responsibility of his parents.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I don't think you deserve the downvotes here. The fact that we've conflated daycare with education is something that the pandemic is forcing us to confront. The US is built around the idea that school and childcare are synonymous and there is very little in the way of infrastructure for a parent working full-time to deal with the situation of not having 9-5 supervision for their kids. Public school is pretty much the answer to the problem of what do with families that can't individually afford full-time childcare or afford to have one parent stay home. It's easy to sit in your armchair and say something like "well they shouldn't have kids then" but the problem is that, largely, this system works!
    - klyrs 6y ago
      Kindergarten is meant to ease the transition from daycare to school. Kids who attend kindergarten have better lifelong outcomes than those who skip it. In fact, it's the children who are dumped straight into grade 1 who are in more need of a "daycare" environment, because by and large, they do not have adequate preparation. And two parents working full-time, with a single child, do not have the resources or additional children required to provide a classroom environment. We're both software engineers. We prefer our children to be taught by people who specialize in teaching children. Your parent got downvoted because the comment is a shallow dismissal.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        You're right about Kindergarten being a very important part of socialization. I've honestly never really heard of people skipping it outside of kids who were bored and needed actual work to keep them occupied. But my point is that school, at least K-8, for the parent functions both as daycare and education. The pandemic and virtual classrooms is making schools provide the education but not the daycare and we're seeing how unprepared the US is to lose this service for a while. Parents still have to go to work but also can't just leave their kids at home alone, and having someone stay with them 9-5 to keep them focused on school is more expensive than a lot of families can afford.
      - mmm_grayons 6y ago
        > the comment is a shallow dismissal No, it's not. > two parents working full-time, with a single child, do not have the resources or additional children required to provide a classroom environment You said your children need childcare as much as education. If you don't have the resources to provide what you believe your children need, perhaps you shouldn't have had children. If you want both parents to work full time, there's certainly an expectation that the children will need care. Why did you assume the state (read: your fellow taxpayers) would or should subsidize that? You are reaping the benefits of having children without bearing all the responsibilities. This situation is simply revealing the negative externalities many parents force on their neighbors.
        Spivak 6y ago
        I'm a little confused on your point. We've had the situation where primary school serves a purpose of providing education, socialization, and giving kids somewhere to go where they'll be supervised for the workday. When you're figuring out how the finances for raising a kid are going to work out it would be kinda weird assume that this core institution that you pay property taxes for and in a lot of cases likely moved for would suddenly go away and that you'd have to figure out how to afford the full-time salary of an in-home caretaker or how to live without an income (but that doesn't really work out for single parents). This really isn't a question of bearing the responsibilities or whatever. Even if you send your kids to private school you're still in the same boat. This new disease-laden world is wildly inefficient because you can't benefit from having having a 30+ to 1 child/adult ratio and parents are just kinda stuck.
- tomjen3 6y ago
  I am sure a Border Collie could deal with him no issue and I don't think dogs can get Covid-19.
  - deckiedan 6y ago
    Many of us live in rental accomodation that have no-pets rules.
    - mmm_grayons 6y ago
      Good point, but many people are making changes due to a radically different lifestyle. Moving to new places to find work, moving out of cities for more space and lower rent/cheaper house. It's not reasonable to expect you get through this without making lifestyle changes.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    From https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/... We know that cats, dogs, and a few other types of animals can be infected with SARS-CoV-2
  - klyrs 6y ago
    The purpose of kindergarten is to prepare children for a classroom environment, including interpersonal skills. If you think a border collie is capable of that, I've got a talking horse to sell you.
topkai22 6y ago
The limited data I've seen is that online learning wasn't effective compared to in person classes. Now admittedly that was an natural experiment conducted in the worst way possible, but it certainly matches my experience that young kids thrive most with at least some in person learning. Utilizing outdoor space is a good idea until late fall in the northern US, and possible due most of the school year in places with moderate climate.

I have a rambunctious 4yo entering kindergarten this year. He needs direct attention of a present human, not a screen to watch.

mmm_grayons 6y ago
That sounds like he needs childcare, not education. That is the responsibility of his parents.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I don't think you deserve the downvotes here. The fact that we've conflated daycare with education is something that the pandemic is forcing us to confront. The US is built around the idea that school and childcare are synonymous and there is very little in the way of infrastructure for a parent working full-time to deal with the situation of not having 9-5 supervision for their kids. Public school is pretty much the answer to the problem of what do with families that can't individually afford full-time childcare or afford to have one parent stay home. It's easy to sit in your armchair and say something like "well they shouldn't have kids then" but the problem is that, largely, this system works!
  - klyrs 6y ago
    Kindergarten is meant to ease the transition from daycare to school. Kids who attend kindergarten have better lifelong outcomes than those who skip it. In fact, it's the children who are dumped straight into grade 1 who are in more need of a "daycare" environment, because by and large, they do not have adequate preparation. And two parents working full-time, with a single child, do not have the resources or additional children required to provide a classroom environment. We're both software engineers. We prefer our children to be taught by people who specialize in teaching children. Your parent got downvoted because the comment is a shallow dismissal.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      You're right about Kindergarten being a very important part of socialization. I've honestly never really heard of people skipping it outside of kids who were bored and needed actual work to keep them occupied. But my point is that school, at least K-8, for the parent functions both as daycare and education. The pandemic and virtual classrooms is making schools provide the education but not the daycare and we're seeing how unprepared the US is to lose this service for a while. Parents still have to go to work but also can't just leave their kids at home alone, and having someone stay with them 9-5 to keep them focused on school is more expensive than a lot of families can afford.
    - mmm_grayons 6y ago
      > the comment is a shallow dismissal No, it's not. > two parents working full-time, with a single child, do not have the resources or additional children required to provide a classroom environment You said your children need childcare as much as education. If you don't have the resources to provide what you believe your children need, perhaps you shouldn't have had children. If you want both parents to work full time, there's certainly an expectation that the children will need care. Why did you assume the state (read: your fellow taxpayers) would or should subsidize that? You are reaping the benefits of having children without bearing all the responsibilities. This situation is simply revealing the negative externalities many parents force on their neighbors.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        I'm a little confused on your point. We've had the situation where primary school serves a purpose of providing education, socialization, and giving kids somewhere to go where they'll be supervised for the workday. When you're figuring out how the finances for raising a kid are going to work out it would be kinda weird assume that this core institution that you pay property taxes for and in a lot of cases likely moved for would suddenly go away and that you'd have to figure out how to afford the full-time salary of an in-home caretaker or how to live without an income (but that doesn't really work out for single parents). This really isn't a question of bearing the responsibilities or whatever. Even if you send your kids to private school you're still in the same boat. This new disease-laden world is wildly inefficient because you can't benefit from having having a 30+ to 1 child/adult ratio and parents are just kinda stuck.
tomjen3 6y ago
I am sure a Border Collie could deal with him no issue and I don't think dogs can get Covid-19.
- deckiedan 6y ago
  Many of us live in rental accomodation that have no-pets rules.
  - mmm_grayons 6y ago
    Good point, but many people are making changes due to a radically different lifestyle. Moving to new places to find work, moving out of cities for more space and lower rent/cheaper house. It's not reasonable to expect you get through this without making lifestyle changes.
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  From https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/... We know that cats, dogs, and a few other types of animals can be infected with SARS-CoV-2
- klyrs 6y ago
  The purpose of kindergarten is to prepare children for a classroom environment, including interpersonal skills. If you think a border collie is capable of that, I've got a talking horse to sell you.

topkai22 6y ago

The limited data I've seen is that online learning wasn't effective compared to in person classes. Now admittedly that was an natural experiment conducted in the worst way possible, but it certainly matches my experience that young kids thrive most with at least some in person learning. Utilizing outdoor space is a good idea until late fall in the northern US, and possible due most of the school year in places with moderate climate.