5 ms·

This is the kind of narrative I expect when the powers that be want to separate a part of a country. This is clearly an attempt to separate Russia from its Sibe

This is the kind of narrative I expect when the powers that be want to separate a part of a country. This is clearly an attempt to separate Russia from its Siberian wealth. For a textbook example of getting a part of a country via generating an independence movement see the history of Panama (former Colombia province).

notfromhere 6y ago
The irony of Russia complaining about separatism when that’s their favorite tactic to keep the near abroad in check.
- owl57 6y ago
  "Near abroad". Do you recognize the origins of this strange term?
  - notfromhere 6y ago
    If you don’t recognize the term your commentary on the ex-USSR may not be meaningful
    - owl57 6y ago
      I do. For readers who don't: it's newspeak invented after Soviet administrative borders became international, to make us slightly less uncomfortable with the idea that we are suddenly "abroad" from each other.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  By the end of this year Airstrip One[1] will have always been part of Oceania. See also California, Texas, Hawaii[2], Philippines (1899-1901)[3], Vermont, Republic of West Florida, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military) In local context, Valais, Neuchâtel, and Geneva[4]. Less recently, the scots-irish in northern ireland, cyprus, korea, israel, not to mention Lawrence of Arabia or the former ottoman balkans in general[5]. The mongols are said to have offered neighbouring cities the thirteenth century equivalent of "plata o plomo", although in their case the silver would flow the other direction... In ancient context, the opening lines of the Melian dialogue occur with the Athenian delegation saying "everyone in this room knows why you all force us to address the aristocracy instead of the people — you all know the people would be unable to refuse our offer." Too many to bother looking up in between and before, so I won't multiply examples. [1] The US no longer needs B-52's for aerial minelaying. I don't know how much mining might affect Brest, but it would certainly be a bummer for Rotterdam and Genoa. I trust brit HN'ers won't wind up eating chlorinated chicken but I guess we have to wait for Oceanian domestic politics to resolve before that question will be answered. In any event, the UK mantle of "inside the tent, pissing in" seems to have already been passed to poland and hungary. [2] which came over wholesale, not retail, so maybe it shouldn't count. If it does, maybe we can add the original 13 colonies, as what would become canada frankly declined to join them. Contrary to popular opinion, I believe "Екатерина, ты была не права" would be anachronistic if referring to Alaska, and refers instead to Catherine's sudden refusal to send George any troops to help put down the bitter dead-ender terrorists (and, later, foreign fighters) who famously had had an arms cache in Concord. [3] with current interest in southeast asian sea routes, I bet the USN would like to have Subic Bay back. Unfortunately at the moment it's been redeveloped in luxury condos and yachts (being within bugout distance of Hong Kong), so it might be rather more expensive than when it was ceded. [4] "Liberated" by the french with a fair amount of domestic popular support. Attached to us by everyone not the french, because while all of the great powers wanted our territory, the only stable strategy in 1815 was for them to agree that none of them would get it. [5] Having studied their latin and greek, the english, while they had their empire, made good use of "let's you and him fight."
nkoren 6y ago
Or, for more recent and perhaps relevant examples: Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and the Donetsk Republic.
- owl57 6y ago
  Or, for slightly less recent but perhaps just as relevant examples: Moldova, Georgia, and, most of all, Ukraine.
  - nkoren 6y ago
    Ah yes, those famous provinces of Russia, which but for the intervention of some meddling foreigners would have no language, culture, history, or national identity of their own.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      At least with Georgia, if it were not for Russian empire, there wouldn't be any Georgia today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_within_the_Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_within_the_Russian_Emp...
    - owl57 6y ago
      Why the strawman? I believe all these separatist movements involve preexisting national identity, both ones I listed and ones you listed.

notfromhere 6y ago

The irony of Russia complaining about separatism when that’s their favorite tactic to keep the near abroad in check.

owl57 6y ago
"Near abroad". Do you recognize the origins of this strange term?
- notfromhere 6y ago
  If you don’t recognize the term your commentary on the ex-USSR may not be meaningful
  - owl57 6y ago
    I do. For readers who don't: it's newspeak invented after Soviet administrative borders became international, to make us slightly less uncomfortable with the idea that we are suddenly "abroad" from each other.
082349872349872 6y ago
By the end of this year Airstrip One[1] will have always been part of Oceania. See also California, Texas, Hawaii[2], Philippines (1899-1901)[3], Vermont, Republic of West Florida, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military) In local context, Valais, Neuchâtel, and Geneva[4]. Less recently, the scots-irish in northern ireland, cyprus, korea, israel, not to mention Lawrence of Arabia or the former ottoman balkans in general[5]. The mongols are said to have offered neighbouring cities the thirteenth century equivalent of "plata o plomo", although in their case the silver would flow the other direction... In ancient context, the opening lines of the Melian dialogue occur with the Athenian delegation saying "everyone in this room knows why you all force us to address the aristocracy instead of the people — you all know the people would be unable to refuse our offer." Too many to bother looking up in between and before, so I won't multiply examples. [1] The US no longer needs B-52's for aerial minelaying. I don't know how much mining might affect Brest, but it would certainly be a bummer for Rotterdam and Genoa. I trust brit HN'ers won't wind up eating chlorinated chicken but I guess we have to wait for Oceanian domestic politics to resolve before that question will be answered. In any event, the UK mantle of "inside the tent, pissing in" seems to have already been passed to poland and hungary. [2] which came over wholesale, not retail, so maybe it shouldn't count. If it does, maybe we can add the original 13 colonies, as what would become canada frankly declined to join them. Contrary to popular opinion, I believe "Екатерина, ты была не права" would be anachronistic if referring to Alaska, and refers instead to Catherine's sudden refusal to send George any troops to help put down the bitter dead-ender terrorists (and, later, foreign fighters) who famously had had an arms cache in Concord. [3] with current interest in southeast asian sea routes, I bet the USN would like to have Subic Bay back. Unfortunately at the moment it's been redeveloped in luxury condos and yachts (being within bugout distance of Hong Kong), so it might be rather more expensive than when it was ceded. [4] "Liberated" by the french with a fair amount of domestic popular support. Attached to us by everyone not the french, because while all of the great powers wanted our territory, the only stable strategy in 1815 was for them to agree that none of them would get it. [5] Having studied their latin and greek, the english, while they had their empire, made good use of "let's you and him fight."

nkoren 6y ago

Or, for more recent and perhaps relevant examples: Transnistria, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, and the Donetsk Republic.

owl57 6y ago
Or, for slightly less recent but perhaps just as relevant examples: Moldova, Georgia, and, most of all, Ukraine.
- nkoren 6y ago
  Ah yes, those famous provinces of Russia, which but for the intervention of some meddling foreigners would have no language, culture, history, or national identity of their own.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    At least with Georgia, if it were not for Russian empire, there wouldn't be any Georgia today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_within_the_Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_within_the_Russian_Emp...
  - owl57 6y ago
    Why the strawman? I believe all these separatist movements involve preexisting national identity, both ones I listed and ones you listed.