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I feel like a smart country would take this opportunity to develop electronic, no-fee payment wallets, not just bring up a coin task force...

by ridaj 6y ago

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
That would kill important business models that prey on poor people.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  You're going to have to give us more information than this. Sure, lots of business models "prey on poor people", but which ones of those are threatened by electronic wallets?
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Lots of poor people do not have bank accounts, so there's no way they can use electronic only systems.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
      Electronic only systems like M-Pesa can replace banks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      Not true, you can load money on a smart card via kiosk. This is already available almost everywhere, although would need to be accepted at POS.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Payday loan sharks are the big one. Universal banking puts them out of business.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      Depending on what that phrase "universal banking" entails, sure. It is the case that some good loans are not being made because of the perceived risks of particular potential borrowers. I don't think free electronic wallets are going to help with that, however. Lots of bad loans are also avoided due to the perceived risk of the potential borrowers. An electronic wallet isn't going to help differentiate this.
8organicbits 6y ago
This sounds like a problem with immediate impact which will eventually (1-2 years?) go away. Creating a new payment system, deploying it widely, getting people to use it, all takes way longer than that time period.
- toast0 6y ago
  They could build on the Direct Express debit Mastercard system that already exists to give social security (and other federal payers) a place to direct deposit funds for people who don't have a bank account. You'd need a way to get money on the card, but that could be ATM deposits, presumably.
- ridaj 6y ago
  Sure. I'm not saying they should not solve the short term problem. Just that there's a bigger opportunity.
neverartful 6y ago
Not all smart people want a no-currency economy. Having all transactions being electronic means that it's super easy for financial institutions and the feds to track every single purchase you make. It's none of their business to know that much detail.
- ridaj 6y ago
  Who says it has to be all-or-nothing? I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to pay with bills, just that more people would use electronic means of payment of it were free, and that the government might come out ahead. I'm not thrilled by taxes going to pay for all the logistics of dealing with pennies and quarters, which are evidently nontrivial.

I feel like a smart country would take this opportunity to develop electronic, no-fee payment wallets, not just bring up a coin task force...

by ridaj 6y ago

I feel like a smart country would take this opportunity to develop electronic, no-fee payment wallets, not just bring up a coin task force...

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

That would kill important business models that prey on poor people.

jessaustin 6y ago
You're going to have to give us more information than this. Sure, lots of business models "prey on poor people", but which ones of those are threatened by electronic wallets?
- dylan604 6y ago
  Lots of poor people do not have bank accounts, so there's no way they can use electronic only systems.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    Electronic only systems like M-Pesa can replace banks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    Not true, you can load money on a smart card via kiosk. This is already available almost everywhere, although would need to be accepted at POS.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Payday loan sharks are the big one. Universal banking puts them out of business.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Depending on what that phrase "universal banking" entails, sure. It is the case that some good loans are not being made because of the perceived risks of particular potential borrowers. I don't think free electronic wallets are going to help with that, however. Lots of bad loans are also avoided due to the perceived risk of the potential borrowers. An electronic wallet isn't going to help differentiate this.

8organicbits 6y ago

This sounds like a problem with immediate impact which will eventually (1-2 years?) go away. Creating a new payment system, deploying it widely, getting people to use it, all takes way longer than that time period.

toast0 6y ago
They could build on the Direct Express debit Mastercard system that already exists to give social security (and other federal payers) a place to direct deposit funds for people who don't have a bank account. You'd need a way to get money on the card, but that could be ATM deposits, presumably.
ridaj 6y ago
Sure. I'm not saying they should not solve the short term problem. Just that there's a bigger opportunity.

neverartful 6y ago

Not all smart people want a no-currency economy. Having all transactions being electronic means that it's super easy for financial institutions and the feds to track every single purchase you make. It's none of their business to know that much detail.

ridaj 6y ago
Who says it has to be all-or-nothing? I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to pay with bills, just that more people would use electronic means of payment of it were free, and that the government might come out ahead. I'm not thrilled by taxes going to pay for all the logistics of dealing with pennies and quarters, which are evidently nontrivial.