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>The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries.

>The increasing censorship within China leaves less and less opportunity for the greater Chinese population to learn about the capabilities of other countries. Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily. Many Chinese learn English via English media or TV shows. check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-s... >The CCP news tells me how terrible the USA is, yet, these elements in my life are excellent beyond what is created by my own country. just not true. I was really shocked about the homeless situation in NA which was never really reported back in China. and also from u/bpodgursky >the Chinese students with the education and wealth to study abroad are already among the top 5% in China. Not the case for most graduate students. Especially the ones received scholarships (such as me). Please check your sources guys. Try learn a bit Mandarin if you could or at least talk to Chinese ppl living around you. China is sick yes. But imagine diagnosing the illness of a patient without looking or talking to them but only via a malicious translator.

qbaqbaqba 6y ago
A simple question: are you a party member?
- jdm2212 6y ago
  The implication of this question is pretty rude, but also, CCP membership isn't terribly meaningful. See, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/politics/china-travel-ban.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/politics/china-travel-...
  - theseadroid 6y ago
    not a party member btw. Am Chinese. I will follow up here on any questions you(qbaqbaqba or anyone else) have though. and if you are interested here's my thought on the whole topic in one piece: https://medium.com/@theseadroid/the-china-problem-ce0c1a0e579a https://medium.com/@theseadroid/the-china-problem-ce0c1a0e57...
    - kodablah 6y ago
      I read and appreciate that blog post. Yet to address any China problems without recognizing any Chinese government fallacies means we're not even having a complete discussion here. I acknowledge the fear of including them, but one's stance on government policies is required to really get their thought on the whole topic.
      - theseadroid 6y ago
        Thanks. I dont fear Chinese government actually and I think it is bad. It's just we have a lot difference on where it is the worst part and how to make it better and by how much time. Truth to be told there are so many solutions proposed by smart ppl but I dont see many that wont hurt regular Chinese ppl more than what the current regime is doing :(
        qbaqbaqba 6y ago
        > the current regime Of course American regime.
- dang 6y ago
  This crosses into nationalistic and ideological flamebait as well as personal attack, none of which is allowed here. We ban accounts that do this. No, we're not party members. We're just trying to prevent this community from destroying itself, including from turning into an ugly mob. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on.
stestagg 6y ago
” Try learn a bit Mandarin if you could or at least talk to Chinese ppl living around you” If I DM you my address, could you send some guys round to invite/escort me to one of your famous education centres. There I’ll be able to learn Mandarin and how great the party is. I’m not muslim or Tibetan, but you could make an exception?
- dang 6y ago
  Please do not take HN threads into nationalistic and ideological flamewar like this. It's not allowed here because it leads to community-damaging discussion and, unfortunately, ugly mob behavior. HN is supposed to be a place for people to exchange their views with openness and curiosity, regardless of how much distance separates us and/or how wrong we feel the other is. Comments like the one you posted here pour poison over all of that. Please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
auganov 6y ago
> Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily This is such a tired argument. You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. Not even with VPN-enabled friends. Sharing any politically sensitive info under your identity is a big no-no. I once did an experiment on Weibo and posted screenshots of an article about Xinjiang concentration camps. The original English version stayed up for quite a while. Then posted a google translated Chinese version and it was quickly taken down. After posting it again my account was banned. That individuals can obtain certain information isn't a big threat to the government if you cannot effectively disseminate it in the general population and organize around it.
- theseadroid 6y ago
  >You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. do you have data to back your claim up? >You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%8E%8B%E5%B0%8F%E4%B8%83%E6%B7%B1%E6%89%92%E8%92%99%E7%89%9B%E4%BC%8A%E5%88%A9%E5%85%AD%E5%A4%A7%E7%BD%AA%E7%8A%B6%E5%AA%92%E4%BD%93%E4%B8%8D%E6%95%A2%E8%AF%B4%E9%82%A3%E5%B0%B1%E6%88%91%E6%9D%A5%E8%AF%B4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%8E%8B... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk politics, in ways you normally wont imagine. But not the politics you expect. >Xinjiang concentration camps. That's an interesting topic because most Chinese dont care when you shove it into their throats in one way or another. If you used Weibo, I wonder do you have Chinese friends? Have you asked their opinion about those camps?
  - auganov 6y ago
    According to this ZDNet article [0] 14% of Chinese internet users use a VPN daily. If you do the math that's roughly 7% of the Chinese population. > We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: ... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk politics, in ways you normally wont imagine. But not the politics you expect. Right, so even to discuss local drama that doesn't even involve big politics you still have to use coded language and can get detained for it. That's not exactly an environment that fosters free spread of information. > That's an interesting topic because most Chinese dont care And that's the sad part. Chinese citizens are being detained often for years without any due process and people don't care. That's exactly what decades of government propaganda do to people. Not even going to mention the organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners which gets somewhat censored even in the Western media too. Most people in China (and the West) are simply unaware of it[1]. [0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-can-still-be-used-in-china-despite-march-31-ban/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-can-still-be-used-in-chin... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

qbaqbaqba 6y ago

A simple question: are you a party member?

jdm2212 6y ago
The implication of this question is pretty rude, but also, CCP membership isn't terribly meaningful. See, e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/politics/china-travel-ban.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/us/politics/china-travel-...
- theseadroid 6y ago
  not a party member btw. Am Chinese. I will follow up here on any questions you(qbaqbaqba or anyone else) have though. and if you are interested here's my thought on the whole topic in one piece: https://medium.com/@theseadroid/the-china-problem-ce0c1a0e579a https://medium.com/@theseadroid/the-china-problem-ce0c1a0e57...
  - kodablah 6y ago
    I read and appreciate that blog post. Yet to address any China problems without recognizing any Chinese government fallacies means we're not even having a complete discussion here. I acknowledge the fear of including them, but one's stance on government policies is required to really get their thought on the whole topic.
    - theseadroid 6y ago
      Thanks. I dont fear Chinese government actually and I think it is bad. It's just we have a lot difference on where it is the worst part and how to make it better and by how much time. Truth to be told there are so many solutions proposed by smart ppl but I dont see many that wont hurt regular Chinese ppl more than what the current regime is doing :(
      - qbaqbaqba 6y ago
        > the current regime Of course American regime.
dang 6y ago
This crosses into nationalistic and ideological flamebait as well as personal attack, none of which is allowed here. We ban accounts that do this. No, we're not party members. We're just trying to prevent this community from destroying itself, including from turning into an ugly mob. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on.

stestagg 6y ago

” Try learn a bit Mandarin if you could or at least talk to Chinese ppl living around you” If I DM you my address, could you send some guys round to invite/escort me to one of your famous education centres. There I’ll be able to learn Mandarin and how great the party is. I’m not muslim or Tibetan, but you could make an exception?

dang 6y ago
Please do not take HN threads into nationalistic and ideological flamewar like this. It's not allowed here because it leads to community-damaging discussion and, unfortunately, ugly mob behavior. HN is supposed to be a place for people to exchange their views with openness and curiosity, regardless of how much distance separates us and/or how wrong we feel the other is. Comments like the one you posted here pour poison over all of that. Please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

auganov 6y ago

> Most of my friends back in China, especially devs, use VPN daily This is such a tired argument. You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. Not even with VPN-enabled friends. Sharing any politically sensitive info under your identity is a big no-no. I once did an experiment on Weibo and posted screenshots of an article about Xinjiang concentration camps. The original English version stayed up for quite a while. Then posted a google translated Chinese version and it was quickly taken down. After posting it again my account was banned. That individuals can obtain certain information isn't a big threat to the government if you cannot effectively disseminate it in the general population and organize around it.

theseadroid 6y ago
>You've got a tiny percent of the population with the ability to proxy out of China. do you have data to back your claim up? >You cannot easily share the information you find with non-VPN friends. We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%8E%8B%E5%B0%8F%E4%B8%83%E6%B7%B1%E6%89%92%E8%92%99%E7%89%9B%E4%BC%8A%E5%88%A9%E5%85%AD%E5%A4%A7%E7%BD%AA%E7%8A%B6%E5%AA%92%E4%BD%93%E4%B8%8D%E6%95%A2%E8%AF%B4%E9%82%A3%E5%B0%B1%E6%88%91%E6%9D%A5%E8%AF%B4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China_irl/comments/hp8z29/%E7%8E%8B... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk politics, in ways you normally wont imagine. But not the politics you expect. >Xinjiang concentration camps. That's an interesting topic because most Chinese dont care when you shove it into their throats in one way or another. If you used Weibo, I wonder do you have Chinese friends? Have you asked their opinion about those camps?
- auganov 6y ago
  According to this ZDNet article [0] 14% of Chinese internet users use a VPN daily. If you do the math that's roughly 7% of the Chinese population. > We talk in person, during lunch or on dinner tables, in office. When we talk politics online we invent new words to avoid auto detection. The recent hot topic is this: ... basically some guy got detained because he whistleblowed something food safety related. We talk politics, in ways you normally wont imagine. But not the politics you expect. Right, so even to discuss local drama that doesn't even involve big politics you still have to use coded language and can get detained for it. That's not exactly an environment that fosters free spread of information. > That's an interesting topic because most Chinese dont care And that's the sad part. Chinese citizens are being detained often for years without any due process and people don't care. That's exactly what decades of government propaganda do to people. Not even going to mention the organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners which gets somewhat censored even in the Western media too. Most people in China (and the West) are simply unaware of it[1]. [0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-can-still-be-used-in-china-despite-march-31-ban/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/vpns-can-still-be-used-in-chin... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...