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While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese peo

While I think your point is mostly valid and benign, Your impression of China seems outdated and tone might seem a bit arrogant to a native Chinese. Chinese people recognize the gap and appreciate the excellence in their daily life. The CCP rarely censored in the way you described(e.g. it never says China’s education/manufacturing is the best, instead they call out the remaining gap constantly). As a matter of fact, the biggest concern I have is the political climate in the US has done more harm than the CCP can even dream of with any propaganda. Overseas Chineses tell more and more story of how chaotic US is to their family in China and that spreads. Ten years ago it’s a no brainer to send you child to get US education but now many parents are reconsidering.

bllguo 6y ago
yes, seconded. China isn't North Korea or the USSR. Don't take for granted that the West is "better", at this point China is looking over and saying "prove it" Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to? Frankly I would argue that the Chinese have a much better understanding of the US than the other way around. They study English, they are exposed to Western cultural exports (we're in a thread about the NBA, for instance), heck the general populace looked up to the US for a long time (not anymore)
- whoevercares 6y ago
  Probably still looking up in quite a few fields(technology, education), but on society/core value aspect it’s been shaky
  - bllguo 6y ago
    you're right. I should have said "less and less so". In any case it's definitely trending down
- ptx 6y ago
  > preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime That's a bit of an unwarranted assumption. Even hinting that you have a different preference or questioning the reports of stability and prosperity (even privately among friends on WeChat, which is monitored and censored) can get you invited for a nice cup of tea with the local police.
  - bllguo 6y ago
    Reports? They literally are experiencing stability and prosperity. People went from rural villages without electricity to towering megacities in a generation. Honestly I find it rather insulting that you'd rather believe they're all hiding their true preferences than try to see their perspective.
    - ptx 6y ago
      The point is that we don't know the degree of stability, prosperity and preference for the CCP because any data that contradicts this narrative is suppressed.
- CrazyStat 6y ago
  > Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to? Let's ask the Chinese citizens in Hong Kong how they feel about the stability and prosperity of their regime, shall we?
  - whoevercares 6y ago
    Great idea. Let’s ask the business owners and working class citizens. They don’t want the freedoms “mobs” for sure
    - theseadroid 6y ago
      and to back you up: >A strike was intended to open a new arena of resistance, but organizers said only 8,943 union members participated in a city-wide poll, falling short of the 60,000 threshold to go ahead, even as 95% of the votes were in favor. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests/hong-kong-unions-students-fail-to-get-support-for-strikes-against-security-law-idUSKBN23S011 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests/hong-ko... HK protestors have failed to organize any long term strike for a while now. If the majority of HKers strike, that will deal a real blow to the government.
  - bllguo 6y ago
    You say this like it's supposed to be some kind of clever gotcha. Yes, the discontent there is real. But even if 100% of HKers are dissatisfied with the regime (which is not the case), they are a tiny fraction of the total population. Overall, I stand by my statement.
beering 6y ago
It's unfortunate that your comments are getting downvoted when they are filling in for a perspective that seems to be missing from the conversation. I hope some people can see value in your comments as data points from China, rather than a value judgment.
coupdejarnac 6y ago
While there is some truth in what you say, many overseas Chinese get their news from Chinese sources even if they have access to better options. It creates a vicious cycle of cognitive dissonance.
- whoevercares 6y ago
  Well I haven’t read Chinese news sources for many years. Speak of cognitive dissonance, Fox News and sometimes CNN are among the worst few media I’ve ever seen
  - theseadroid 6y ago
    Teling the truth and getting downvoted. I'm Chinese too. Wanna connect (email in my profile)?
    - whoevercares 6y ago
      Too much risks in US to do so right now in this climate. I just want to pay my taxes and remain a good keyboard man with slightly different opinions. See Chineses self censored.
      - theseadroid 6y ago
        whenever I see misinformation my blood boils. I thought moving out of China would help my anger management. But alas here we are. I have been wondering instead of wasting time telling HN or any community what China is like, maybe there's something I can do to help China become a better place where I wanna live in future, no matter how small I can contribute. Many westerners (government bodies excluded) are good intended, but the solution they got mostly will only get things worse.
        whoevercares 6y ago
        It’s close to impossible to stop misinformation given most westerners Have a much higher trust level of their media E.g Fox News reporting hospitals are getting paid to attribute deaths to Covid-19 regardless of the cause. I’m sure many on the right-wing actually believes it. And also this forum is of western mainstream view and Values so bias is expected. dang teaches a good lesson in how to live here so nowadays I rarely get triggered

bllguo 6y ago

yes, seconded. China isn't North Korea or the USSR. Don't take for granted that the West is "better", at this point China is looking over and saying "prove it" Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to? Frankly I would argue that the Chinese have a much better understanding of the US than the other way around. They study English, they are exposed to Western cultural exports (we're in a thread about the NBA, for instance), heck the general populace looked up to the US for a long time (not anymore)

whoevercares 6y ago
Probably still looking up in quite a few fields(technology, education), but on society/core value aspect it’s been shaky
- bllguo 6y ago
  you're right. I should have said "less and less so". In any case it's definitely trending down
ptx 6y ago
> preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime That's a bit of an unwarranted assumption. Even hinting that you have a different preference or questioning the reports of stability and prosperity (even privately among friends on WeChat, which is monitored and censored) can get you invited for a nice cup of tea with the local police.
- bllguo 6y ago
  Reports? They literally are experiencing stability and prosperity. People went from rural villages without electricity to towering megacities in a generation. Honestly I find it rather insulting that you'd rather believe they're all hiding their true preferences than try to see their perspective.
  - ptx 6y ago
    The point is that we don't know the degree of stability, prosperity and preference for the CCP because any data that contradicts this narrative is suppressed.
CrazyStat 6y ago
> Can you blame Chinese citizens for preferring the stability and prosperity of their own regime, when they have the current disarray of American democracy to compare to? Let's ask the Chinese citizens in Hong Kong how they feel about the stability and prosperity of their regime, shall we?
- whoevercares 6y ago
  Great idea. Let’s ask the business owners and working class citizens. They don’t want the freedoms “mobs” for sure
  - theseadroid 6y ago
    and to back you up: >A strike was intended to open a new arena of resistance, but organizers said only 8,943 union members participated in a city-wide poll, falling short of the 60,000 threshold to go ahead, even as 95% of the votes were in favor. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests/hong-kong-unions-students-fail-to-get-support-for-strikes-against-security-law-idUSKBN23S011 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests/hong-ko... HK protestors have failed to organize any long term strike for a while now. If the majority of HKers strike, that will deal a real blow to the government.
- bllguo 6y ago
  You say this like it's supposed to be some kind of clever gotcha. Yes, the discontent there is real. But even if 100% of HKers are dissatisfied with the regime (which is not the case), they are a tiny fraction of the total population. Overall, I stand by my statement.

beering 6y ago

It's unfortunate that your comments are getting downvoted when they are filling in for a perspective that seems to be missing from the conversation. I hope some people can see value in your comments as data points from China, rather than a value judgment.

coupdejarnac 6y ago

While there is some truth in what you say, many overseas Chinese get their news from Chinese sources even if they have access to better options. It creates a vicious cycle of cognitive dissonance.

whoevercares 6y ago
Well I haven’t read Chinese news sources for many years. Speak of cognitive dissonance, Fox News and sometimes CNN are among the worst few media I’ve ever seen
- theseadroid 6y ago
  Teling the truth and getting downvoted. I'm Chinese too. Wanna connect (email in my profile)?
  - whoevercares 6y ago
    Too much risks in US to do so right now in this climate. I just want to pay my taxes and remain a good keyboard man with slightly different opinions. See Chineses self censored.
    - theseadroid 6y ago
      whenever I see misinformation my blood boils. I thought moving out of China would help my anger management. But alas here we are. I have been wondering instead of wasting time telling HN or any community what China is like, maybe there's something I can do to help China become a better place where I wanna live in future, no matter how small I can contribute. Many westerners (government bodies excluded) are good intended, but the solution they got mostly will only get things worse.
      - whoevercares 6y ago
        It’s close to impossible to stop misinformation given most westerners Have a much higher trust level of their media E.g Fox News reporting hospitals are getting paid to attribute deaths to Covid-19 regardless of the cause. I’m sure many on the right-wing actually believes it. And also this forum is of western mainstream view and Values so bias is expected. dang teaches a good lesson in how to live here so nowadays I rarely get triggered