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Which is why millionaire players and coaches are absolutely mute (or are muted) on any China issue, or claim that the issue is complicated. I think it's health

Which is why millionaire players and coaches are absolutely mute (or are muted) on any China issue, or claim that the issue is complicated. I think it's healthy to remind people, from time to time, how Hollywod (e.g. Tencent), the NBA, and other American institutions have sold themselves to CCP money.

amznthrwaway 6y ago
I understand that many racists want it to be morally wrong to do business with China, but I don't believe it's that simple. Americans who've never even visited China feel free to moralize about how what Chinese people really want is a choice between two shitty parties, just how it is in America. But many Chinese look at America and think it's a terribly mismanaged country that used to be great, and is falling further and further behind due in large part to its deranged politics. It's simply not a given that the American way of doing things is better. Americans complain about China even while America destroys countries directly, overthrows governments, supports South and Central American death squads, supports tyrannical middle eastern regimes, gives huge sums of government money to major polluters, and engages in other reprehensible behavior. Take the log out of your eye before you look at the mote in ours. And if we're truly honest, the real problem is that white americans see non-white people getting rich and powerful, and that's something that the white supremacists who run rampant in America (and on Hacker News) cannot abide.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  The way you write, sounds as if you believe all people with white skin color are racists Which seems a bit ironic Although maybe that isn't what you actually believe. Maybe just how you happened to write
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  The instability of the US government is by design: no Presidents' for life; single party-rule is discouraged; three co-equal branches of government; sovereign states; and so on. I, like many Americans, will always prefer democratic elections, rule of law, due process, right to bears arms in self defense, and free speech over government imposed "stability" any day.
  - Dahoon 6y ago
    Ironic when many Europeans doesnt see the US as particularly democratic. Having two parties that -compared to where I live- are both right wing doesn't look like a democracy to me. Actually the US smells a lot like a nation just about to become facist.
  - amznthrwaway 6y ago
    The US government is designed poorly. Only an American would be stupid enough to mistake their two-party system for choice. Also, only an American would be dumb enough to look at the "co-equal branches of government" in the modern times and call them co-equal. You have been brainwashed. You don't have choice. You're just tricked into thinking you have some. Democratic elections? Between candidates selected for you, and with electors who can fix the glitch if the people vote in the wrong way. Rule of law? That is hilarious. Laws do not apply to the American elite. For example, Roger Stone. Or if you're a republican, Bill Clinton. Right to bear arms? Bullshit. Ruby Ridge. Waco. Black Lives Matter. The right to bear arms is just a slogan to sell guns to dumb Americans. Free speech? Only if you say the right things, in the right place. Say the wrong things and you get pepper sprayed and arrested, or people get you fired. Americans are not freer than Chinese. They are just dumber.
- monkeycantype 6y ago
  I think you argument would be a lot better, if you were more careful about discussing the difference between the things that are done by the government of a country, and the experience of people living in that country. Ordinary Chinese people are not imprisoning Uighurs in their living room, and ordinary Americans aren't dropping bombs on Yemen on the weekend, both would find that abhorrent, so when they hear their own country described through these activities it's jarring, but feel less discomfort describing the other country through reference to it's worst atrocities. If we wanted to, but I think it's unnecessary for this conversation, we could compile a list for the terrible things that China and the US have done, and both list would be horrific. There would be two significant differences between the two lists at the moment: The US military is much more active outside its own claimed borders The Chinese government is much more active suppressing speech and thought. I do not believe these differences are due to any moral superiority on either side - that would be a rather remarkable claim. The people run over by tanks in Tienanmen, arrested for political dissent in recent years aren't Americans, they are Chinese people pushing for a more open society, a desire for fairness is not an American quality it is a human one. As federal agents abduct protesters of the streets in Portland, it should be clear - abuse of power is not a Chinese failing, it's a human one. I think the there is a very good case that the difference between the lists of Chinese and American atrocities is simply a description of the differences in power and accountability of the two governments. There are plenty of good reasons to fear that both governments would like to expand their power and reduce accountability to look more like a hybrid of the worst of both. Your last sentence takes something that's real - white racism and assumptions of cultural superiority, and elevates it to 'the real problem', I think you're close, but you've missed a bigger picture. A Chinese friend of mine told me about breaking in to hysterical laughter as a child when first hearing about white supremacy, a the story as she tells it now (ironically) is that her reaction was 'what idiots, don't they know the Chinese as the superior race!' Identifying with a group is deliciously pleasurable, identifying with a nation, with it's flags and songs and strong military even more so, and puts us in a vulnerable position, in which powerful people can use that identification, to weave an overly simple myth about our country that blinds us to complexity. Free speech, ending military aggression won't kill China or America, but it will destroy the power and fortunes of some within those countries. When we engage in tit for tat whataboutism in these forums, we are averting our eyes from the flaws in our own countries, and advancing the fortunes of the greediest and most destructive people in our societies.
reedwolf 6y ago
Not sure why amznthrwaway is being voted down, but he has a good point. Americans are used to others having to tiptoe around their sensibilities, and now they're finding out what adhering to a foreign culture's value system is like.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  There is a big difference between not spoiling the 'america #1' for a big target audience and not talking about human rights violations to avoid being locked out by a government. One is about the sensitivities of the people buying, one is about a government forcefully taking over a country and that government stopping you from saying anything about it.
- wolco 6y ago
  I think he is being voted down for many reasons but not for the point you make. When someone makes statements calling all American racists against non-whites they forget millions of non-white American people they casually toss aside to make their point. In this day and age can we move past that the false premise that all Americans are white?
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  I'm not disagreeing, but I also don't know what you mean. I'm trying to imagine something, say for example, Sony would have to prevent users from doing on their gaming platform that would otherwise cause millions of American Playstation fans to stop using their consoles. I tried to think of a sports league analogy, but I don't think there are any foreign sports leagues that are popular enough here to make a proper analogy.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    Show a nipple?
    - creato 6y ago
      There are plenty of nipples on cable TV (and the internet). What you can't do is broadcast a nipple on over the air TV.
rsj_hn 6y ago
It's particularly egregious to be promoting yourself as an organization that opposes racism when you are making money selling jerseys and shoes sown by Uygher slaves in concentration camps. There is a systematic government program to rape, forcibly sterilize, and ethnically cleanse this population. The NBA, together with the stars taking the merchandise contracts need to admit that they have zero problem with racism, genocide, rape, and slavery as long as it's not their own people and as long as they can profit from it. I think the public would respect them more if they did that. It's a dog eat dog world, and Lebron's gotta eat.

amznthrwaway 6y ago

I understand that many racists want it to be morally wrong to do business with China, but I don't believe it's that simple. Americans who've never even visited China feel free to moralize about how what Chinese people really want is a choice between two shitty parties, just how it is in America. But many Chinese look at America and think it's a terribly mismanaged country that used to be great, and is falling further and further behind due in large part to its deranged politics. It's simply not a given that the American way of doing things is better. Americans complain about China even while America destroys countries directly, overthrows governments, supports South and Central American death squads, supports tyrannical middle eastern regimes, gives huge sums of government money to major polluters, and engages in other reprehensible behavior. Take the log out of your eye before you look at the mote in ours. And if we're truly honest, the real problem is that white americans see non-white people getting rich and powerful, and that's something that the white supremacists who run rampant in America (and on Hacker News) cannot abide.

cutemonster 6y ago
The way you write, sounds as if you believe all people with white skin color are racists Which seems a bit ironic Although maybe that isn't what you actually believe. Maybe just how you happened to write
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
pnw_hazor 6y ago
The instability of the US government is by design: no Presidents' for life; single party-rule is discouraged; three co-equal branches of government; sovereign states; and so on. I, like many Americans, will always prefer democratic elections, rule of law, due process, right to bears arms in self defense, and free speech over government imposed "stability" any day.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  Ironic when many Europeans doesnt see the US as particularly democratic. Having two parties that -compared to where I live- are both right wing doesn't look like a democracy to me. Actually the US smells a lot like a nation just about to become facist.
- amznthrwaway 6y ago
  The US government is designed poorly. Only an American would be stupid enough to mistake their two-party system for choice. Also, only an American would be dumb enough to look at the "co-equal branches of government" in the modern times and call them co-equal. You have been brainwashed. You don't have choice. You're just tricked into thinking you have some. Democratic elections? Between candidates selected for you, and with electors who can fix the glitch if the people vote in the wrong way. Rule of law? That is hilarious. Laws do not apply to the American elite. For example, Roger Stone. Or if you're a republican, Bill Clinton. Right to bear arms? Bullshit. Ruby Ridge. Waco. Black Lives Matter. The right to bear arms is just a slogan to sell guns to dumb Americans. Free speech? Only if you say the right things, in the right place. Say the wrong things and you get pepper sprayed and arrested, or people get you fired. Americans are not freer than Chinese. They are just dumber.
monkeycantype 6y ago
I think you argument would be a lot better, if you were more careful about discussing the difference between the things that are done by the government of a country, and the experience of people living in that country. Ordinary Chinese people are not imprisoning Uighurs in their living room, and ordinary Americans aren't dropping bombs on Yemen on the weekend, both would find that abhorrent, so when they hear their own country described through these activities it's jarring, but feel less discomfort describing the other country through reference to it's worst atrocities. If we wanted to, but I think it's unnecessary for this conversation, we could compile a list for the terrible things that China and the US have done, and both list would be horrific. There would be two significant differences between the two lists at the moment: The US military is much more active outside its own claimed borders The Chinese government is much more active suppressing speech and thought. I do not believe these differences are due to any moral superiority on either side - that would be a rather remarkable claim. The people run over by tanks in Tienanmen, arrested for political dissent in recent years aren't Americans, they are Chinese people pushing for a more open society, a desire for fairness is not an American quality it is a human one. As federal agents abduct protesters of the streets in Portland, it should be clear - abuse of power is not a Chinese failing, it's a human one. I think the there is a very good case that the difference between the lists of Chinese and American atrocities is simply a description of the differences in power and accountability of the two governments. There are plenty of good reasons to fear that both governments would like to expand their power and reduce accountability to look more like a hybrid of the worst of both. Your last sentence takes something that's real - white racism and assumptions of cultural superiority, and elevates it to 'the real problem', I think you're close, but you've missed a bigger picture. A Chinese friend of mine told me about breaking in to hysterical laughter as a child when first hearing about white supremacy, a the story as she tells it now (ironically) is that her reaction was 'what idiots, don't they know the Chinese as the superior race!' Identifying with a group is deliciously pleasurable, identifying with a nation, with it's flags and songs and strong military even more so, and puts us in a vulnerable position, in which powerful people can use that identification, to weave an overly simple myth about our country that blinds us to complexity. Free speech, ending military aggression won't kill China or America, but it will destroy the power and fortunes of some within those countries. When we engage in tit for tat whataboutism in these forums, we are averting our eyes from the flaws in our own countries, and advancing the fortunes of the greediest and most destructive people in our societies.

reedwolf 6y ago

Not sure why amznthrwaway is being voted down, but he has a good point. Americans are used to others having to tiptoe around their sensibilities, and now they're finding out what adhering to a foreign culture's value system is like.

CyberDildonics 6y ago
There is a big difference between not spoiling the 'america #1' for a big target audience and not talking about human rights violations to avoid being locked out by a government. One is about the sensitivities of the people buying, one is about a government forcefully taking over a country and that government stopping you from saying anything about it.
wolco 6y ago
I think he is being voted down for many reasons but not for the point you make. When someone makes statements calling all American racists against non-whites they forget millions of non-white American people they casually toss aside to make their point. In this day and age can we move past that the false premise that all Americans are white?
bonestamp2 6y ago
I'm not disagreeing, but I also don't know what you mean. I'm trying to imagine something, say for example, Sony would have to prevent users from doing on their gaming platform that would otherwise cause millions of American Playstation fans to stop using their consoles. I tried to think of a sports league analogy, but I don't think there are any foreign sports leagues that are popular enough here to make a proper analogy.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  Show a nipple?
  - creato 6y ago
    There are plenty of nipples on cable TV (and the internet). What you can't do is broadcast a nipple on over the air TV.

rsj_hn 6y ago

It's particularly egregious to be promoting yourself as an organization that opposes racism when you are making money selling jerseys and shoes sown by Uygher slaves in concentration camps. There is a systematic government program to rape, forcibly sterilize, and ethnically cleanse this population. The NBA, together with the stars taking the merchandise contracts need to admit that they have zero problem with racism, genocide, rape, and slavery as long as it's not their own people and as long as they can profit from it. I think the public would respect them more if they did that. It's a dog eat dog world, and Lebron's gotta eat.