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We agree that the degree of fraud is unknown. Where we disagree is on your insistence that the possibility that it may happen is worth suppressing the vote of

We agree that the degree of fraud is unknown. Where we disagree is on your insistence that the possibility that it may happen is worth suppressing the vote of the "11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – [who] do not have government-issued photo identification." You have presented no evidence - at all - that it is a widespread problem, that it is a pervasive problem. I, on the other hand, have cited dozens of studies and government investigations - many of which were conducted by supporters of voter ID requirements - that showed vanishingly small amounts of fraud. You have also cited made-up statistics (99.9%) and numbers (1,071 fraudulent votes) that sound scary, but end up being insignificant in terms of actually impacting elections. Unless you can provide evidence of widespread fraud changing a state-level or federal election - which I've asked for since my very first comment - I'm no longer willing to discuss this with you.

deleted 6y ago
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manigandham 6y ago
We don't agree. I'm saying it's unknown - which means I don't know whether it's zero or widespread. That's the point. Again, it's impossible to measure without mass confirmation and that has never been done. Where else do you expect the evidence to come from? You however claim that there is none. A lack of evidence from a lack of measurement does not mean your narrative must be true. I'm asking questions seeking the truth. You are blindly following a political narrative while dismissing any questioning. You cited a few articles that only focus on voter ID which isn't the only type of fraud (remember the 4 year investigation into Russian interference?). Also that 11% stat is unsourced and just a quote in an article which discusses people who already had IDs and failed to keep them updated. It's not voter suppression if everyone has to do it. Do you think that having an ID for work or to drive is suppressing rights as well? Can you answer the question I posed earlier about the overlap of people participating in society and but don't have ID? If it's such a problem then the answer should be easy.

deleted 6y ago

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manigandham 6y ago

We don't agree. I'm saying it's unknown - which means I don't know whether it's zero or widespread. That's the point. Again, it's impossible to measure without mass confirmation and that has never been done. Where else do you expect the evidence to come from? You however claim that there is none. A lack of evidence from a lack of measurement does not mean your narrative must be true. I'm asking questions seeking the truth. You are blindly following a political narrative while dismissing any questioning. You cited a few articles that only focus on voter ID which isn't the only type of fraud (remember the 4 year investigation into Russian interference?). Also that 11% stat is unsourced and just a quote in an article which discusses people who already had IDs and failed to keep them updated. It's not voter suppression if everyone has to do it. Do you think that having an ID for work or to drive is suppressing rights as well? Can you answer the question I posed earlier about the overlap of people participating in society and but don't have ID? If it's such a problem then the answer should be easy.