4 ms·

You use democracy.

woofie11 6y ago
How? In my town, there was nearly universal support for reducing police budgets among citizens. The budget went up by millions. How, concretely, should I use democracy to address that? Not the idealized model of democracy where laws that the majority of citizens want get passed, and where if everyone wishes for a law hard enough it happens, but the reality of democracy, where eyeballs cost millions of dollars, and politicians need money and voting blocks to stay in power.
- Bostonian 6y ago
  Elect politicians who will cut police budgets, if that is your goal. Impatience is not an excuse for rioting.
  - woofie11 6y ago
    Impatience wasn't the excuse. People are plenty patient. Game theory and organizational dynamics are more of an excuse. It turns out democracies don't work like that. I'd recommend The Dictator's Handbook to understand why that won't work, but you don't seem like the sort to read books. Rules for Rulers is a nice summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
    - Bostonian 6y ago
      "you don't seem like the sort to read books". That's obnoxious, and you know it. I have hundreds of books that I have read in my home, although they probably overlap little with your collection.
      - woofie11 6y ago
        You'd be surprised just at how much overlap there might be. I'm a parent, and I still have a nice collection of board books left over from toddlerhood. Obnoxious is injecting 3-word snide comments when people want to have serious discussions about governance and corruption. If you have something serious to say, please contribute. I'm serious about that -- different points of view are good. If you don't have something to contribute, and you just want to make a douche of yourself, you can expect people to respond in kind.
kazagistar 6y ago
You think no one tried and jumped straight to this? Its been going on the whole time and democracy didn't work. The real answer is you use politics. Elections are sometimes part of that process, but there are countless times that more was needed. What we see is a political act by people driven to desperation by the failure of electoralism.
thefj 6y ago
It goes both ways. The police unions should be outlawed, and police members should use democracy like everyone else. If they don't like something about the job conditions, they can vote democratically to change it. I can't form a tax union and negotiate with the government, why should they be able to?
- woofie11 6y ago
  You can form one. Generically, it's called a political party, but there are special-interest groups like the NRA representing gun-owners, or the PTA, which represents families. I don't think anyone is arguing there shouldn't be police unions. However, those should be reformed as open and transparent organizations which support for law-and-order, good working conditions for police officers, and similar. Those should not be secretive organizations which support police violence, racism, protect bad cops, and sometimes engage in organized crime.

You use democracy.

How? In my town, there was nearly universal support for reducing police budgets among citizens. The budget went up by millions. How, concretely, should I use democracy to address that? Not the idealized model of democracy where laws that the majority of citizens want get passed, and where if everyone wishes for a law hard enough it happens, but the reality of democracy, where eyeballs cost millions of dollars, and politicians need money and voting blocks to stay in power.

Bostonian 6y ago
Elect politicians who will cut police budgets, if that is your goal. Impatience is not an excuse for rioting.
- woofie11 6y ago
  Impatience wasn't the excuse. People are plenty patient. Game theory and organizational dynamics are more of an excuse. It turns out democracies don't work like that. I'd recommend The Dictator's Handbook to understand why that won't work, but you don't seem like the sort to read books. Rules for Rulers is a nice summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
  - Bostonian 6y ago
    "you don't seem like the sort to read books". That's obnoxious, and you know it. I have hundreds of books that I have read in my home, although they probably overlap little with your collection.
    - woofie11 6y ago
      You'd be surprised just at how much overlap there might be. I'm a parent, and I still have a nice collection of board books left over from toddlerhood. Obnoxious is injecting 3-word snide comments when people want to have serious discussions about governance and corruption. If you have something serious to say, please contribute. I'm serious about that -- different points of view are good. If you don't have something to contribute, and you just want to make a douche of yourself, you can expect people to respond in kind.

kazagistar 6y ago

You think no one tried and jumped straight to this? Its been going on the whole time and democracy didn't work. The real answer is you use politics. Elections are sometimes part of that process, but there are countless times that more was needed. What we see is a political act by people driven to desperation by the failure of electoralism.

thefj 6y ago

It goes both ways. The police unions should be outlawed, and police members should use democracy like everyone else. If they don't like something about the job conditions, they can vote democratically to change it. I can't form a tax union and negotiate with the government, why should they be able to?

woofie11 6y ago
You can form one. Generically, it's called a political party, but there are special-interest groups like the NRA representing gun-owners, or the PTA, which represents families. I don't think anyone is arguing there shouldn't be police unions. However, those should be reformed as open and transparent organizations which support for law-and-order, good working conditions for police officers, and similar. Those should not be secretive organizations which support police violence, racism, protect bad cops, and sometimes engage in organized crime.