7 ms·

In context of Brexit, the inevitable consequences of the UK's actions is quite often a "bombshell" to the UK. The denial is strong.

headmelted 6y ago
This. You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. What's bizarre is that when challenged on how ridiculous that is, they'll immediately accept it as rational before saying "well we voted out anyway so it doesn't matter".
- rumanator 6y ago
  > You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. Still, nothing beats the cluelessness of pro-brexit British expats when they are faced with the consequences of what they demanded. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-spain-wake-future-change-200305140716114.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-sp...
- eeh 6y ago
  Is it the average Joe, or is it the 95th percentile idiot that happens to get attention?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
    The 52% idiot.
    - pixxel 6y ago
      Go do this on twitter/reddit.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides.
    - eeh 6y ago
      > Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. I can believe that. > Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides. I can believe that, but what makes the confusion one-way? i.e. do leave voters realise all the upsides?
      - rsynnott 6y ago
        I mean, not being funny, but, what upsides? The upsides of Brexit are generally, at best, very subjective and ephemeral (‘sovereignty’ in the sense of passport colour change) or outright imaginary (the EU is banning kettles and jam).
        eeh 6y ago
        As a remain voter, I'm not best to advocate for the strengths of leave. As I'm sure you're aware, debate between remain and leave is difficult. Characterising sovereignty concerns as "passport colour change" won't start the conversation on the right path, however. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29607906-why-vote-leave https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29607906-why-vote-leave was a good book for understanding some benefits of Leave. Please don't discredit the positions or the book solely from my my hazy memory of the book, but here goes: * EU is a weakening trade bloc, so we're better off out of the customs union, and making trade deals that work for UK, rather than that work for the EU (example: cheaper tomatoes from Africa, that the EU will not make, since it'll make Spain/Italy worse off) * UK's voting patterns within EU was anomolous: UK voted against policies far more than other countries anyway. * UK public seems to have a max acceptable rate of immigration, and we may prefer more selective immigration policies (e.g. target the high skilled workers in India, China, Australia) Those are meant to pique your interest in the book. I don't think starting a debate on HN will be productive, at least because I barely remember the book.
- simonh 6y ago
  The Brexiteer in my family blames it all on the Europeans, apparently they’re the ones raising all these barriers and cutting us off from the benefits of membership out of spite.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
camcorder 6y ago
Is it? The denial in Europe is currently that the flooding of the labor market with Eastern European workers has no consequences for the common man. Countries have been sold out to the stock markets for the last two decades. It is refreshing that the UK is the first to recognize this officially.
- threeseed 6y ago
  Many of the jobs Eastern Europeans were taking simply aren't being filled by UK workers. They consider themselves too good to pick fruit, clean toilets and care for sick people.
  - igmeyers 6y ago
    Would not the praised invisible hand take care of this? If toilet cleaners provide more value than stock brokers (they do), they should be paid more. There is also the fact that Eastern European construction workers in Germany do not follow German regulations, rip out Asbest without precautions etc., thus undercutting local builders.
    - mrtksn 6y ago
      Is this a problem due to the existence of Easter Europeans or a problem of Government not enforcing the regulations. Why don't you demand enforcement of regulations instead of wholesale ban of Eastern Europeans? Also, how do you feel about sending all non-complient workers to Eastern Europe or do you think that German non-complient workers should just get a fine?
      - makomk 6y ago
        Poor, desperate people who don't speak the local language are not exactly likely to turn whistleblower. We've seen this in the UK recently with the Covid-19 outbreaks on vegetable farms - which are (as Brexit opponents in the press repeatedly and smugly pointed out) almost entirely staffed by migrant workers from Eastern Europe to the point that when Covid shut down travel they had to charter special planes to fly them in - when the people who went to the press about the dodgy hygene conditions were the only British workers. There's a reason these companies prefer migrant workers, and it's not a good one.

headmelted 6y ago

This. You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. What's bizarre is that when challenged on how ridiculous that is, they'll immediately accept it as rational before saying "well we voted out anyway so it doesn't matter".

rumanator 6y ago
> You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. Still, nothing beats the cluelessness of pro-brexit British expats when they are faced with the consequences of what they demanded. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-spain-wake-future-change-200305140716114.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-sp...
eeh 6y ago
Is it the average Joe, or is it the 95th percentile idiot that happens to get attention?
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  The 52% idiot.
  - pixxel 6y ago
    Go do this on twitter/reddit.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides.
  - eeh 6y ago
    > Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. I can believe that. > Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides. I can believe that, but what makes the confusion one-way? i.e. do leave voters realise all the upsides?
    - rsynnott 6y ago
      I mean, not being funny, but, what upsides? The upsides of Brexit are generally, at best, very subjective and ephemeral (‘sovereignty’ in the sense of passport colour change) or outright imaginary (the EU is banning kettles and jam).
      - eeh 6y ago
        As a remain voter, I'm not best to advocate for the strengths of leave. As I'm sure you're aware, debate between remain and leave is difficult. Characterising sovereignty concerns as "passport colour change" won't start the conversation on the right path, however. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29607906-why-vote-leave https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29607906-why-vote-leave was a good book for understanding some benefits of Leave. Please don't discredit the positions or the book solely from my my hazy memory of the book, but here goes: * EU is a weakening trade bloc, so we're better off out of the customs union, and making trade deals that work for UK, rather than that work for the EU (example: cheaper tomatoes from Africa, that the EU will not make, since it'll make Spain/Italy worse off) * UK's voting patterns within EU was anomolous: UK voted against policies far more than other countries anyway. * UK public seems to have a max acceptable rate of immigration, and we may prefer more selective immigration policies (e.g. target the high skilled workers in India, China, Australia) Those are meant to pique your interest in the book. I don't think starting a debate on HN will be productive, at least because I barely remember the book.
simonh 6y ago
The Brexiteer in my family blames it all on the Europeans, apparently they’re the ones raising all these barriers and cutting us off from the benefits of membership out of spite.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

camcorder 6y ago

Is it? The denial in Europe is currently that the flooding of the labor market with Eastern European workers has no consequences for the common man. Countries have been sold out to the stock markets for the last two decades. It is refreshing that the UK is the first to recognize this officially.

threeseed 6y ago
Many of the jobs Eastern Europeans were taking simply aren't being filled by UK workers. They consider themselves too good to pick fruit, clean toilets and care for sick people.
- igmeyers 6y ago
  Would not the praised invisible hand take care of this? If toilet cleaners provide more value than stock brokers (they do), they should be paid more. There is also the fact that Eastern European construction workers in Germany do not follow German regulations, rip out Asbest without precautions etc., thus undercutting local builders.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    Is this a problem due to the existence of Easter Europeans or a problem of Government not enforcing the regulations. Why don't you demand enforcement of regulations instead of wholesale ban of Eastern Europeans? Also, how do you feel about sending all non-complient workers to Eastern Europe or do you think that German non-complient workers should just get a fine?
    - makomk 6y ago
      Poor, desperate people who don't speak the local language are not exactly likely to turn whistleblower. We've seen this in the UK recently with the Covid-19 outbreaks on vegetable farms - which are (as Brexit opponents in the press repeatedly and smugly pointed out) almost entirely staffed by migrant workers from Eastern Europe to the point that when Covid shut down travel they had to charter special planes to fly them in - when the people who went to the press about the dodgy hygene conditions were the only British workers. There's a reason these companies prefer migrant workers, and it's not a good one.