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Amazon’s UK FBA operations will be split from the EU

147 points by raattgift 6y ago

vilifiedtwin 6y ago
Journalists really are scraping the barrel here...
gdrift 6y ago
BFA (Fulfilment by Amazon) EFN (European Fulfilment Network)
- bufferoverflow 6y ago
  FBA, not BFA.
- dhimes 6y ago
  Thank you.
intsunny 6y ago
I fail to see the "bombshell" here. This is what everyone expected when leaving the EU single market. The only bombshell would be if the UK negotiators managed to prevent a hard Brexit. Given the current track record of their leading political party, this seems unlikely.
- netcan 6y ago
  Bombshell in the context of that website's subject/audience. Not a bombshell to the UK or world generally.
  - the_duke 6y ago
    But why is this a bombshell (implying a surprise), rather than the natural, expected consequence of the UK leaving the customs union? I'd imagine continuing the current scheme would add a lot of regulatory and procedural complexity for Amazon, which they are unwilling to handle. Isn't this something that was expected by sellers?
    - netcan 6y ago
      bombshell = big news
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        I think the implication above was that while it was big, it wasn’t unexpected information.
      - Hamuko 6y ago
        Wiktionary defines bombshell as "Something that is very surprising, shocking, amazing or sensational."
        sangnoir 6y ago
        sensational = big news
    - rtempaccount1 6y ago
      I'd imagine it depends on how much attention the operators in this marketplace have been paying. If they've believed UK Government rhetoric about how Brexit will be a smooth process that will enhance the UK's trading opportunities, this may come as a surprise. There are (IMO) a reasonable number of UK citizens and businesses who haven't grasped the likely consequences of what's happening on 1/1/21
      - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
        Oh yeah, and the current pandemic and its economic effects aren't helping the UK's brexit issues.
        tannhaeuser 6y ago
        Not to add insult to injury, but it's been said that coronavirus actually plays into the hand of current UK gov as they have a scape goat if things go south.
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  In context of Brexit, the inevitable consequences of the UK's actions is quite often a "bombshell" to the UK. The denial is strong.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    This. You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. What's bizarre is that when challenged on how ridiculous that is, they'll immediately accept it as rational before saying "well we voted out anyway so it doesn't matter".
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. Still, nothing beats the cluelessness of pro-brexit British expats when they are faced with the consequences of what they demanded. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-spain-wake-future-change-200305140716114.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-sp...
    - eeh 6y ago
      Is it the average Joe, or is it the 95th percentile idiot that happens to get attention?
      - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
        The 52% idiot.
        pixxel 6y ago
        Go do this on twitter/reddit.
      - rsynnott 6y ago
        Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  >This is what everyone expected when leaving the EU single market. Actually we were repeatedly told otherwise. Not that I believed any of it.
- scaryclam 6y ago
  Yes, "bombshell" is a pretty silly way of putting it. Any business with an even semi-competent leadership has been planning on the assumption that these types of things will be gone and are mitigating the issues as far as they can.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  UK had a great think going on but meritocracy creates both winners and losers. In a mixture of losers with cocky winners, you have people who overestimate their abilities and people who are bitter. The bitter ones demand protection against the people who come over and over-compete them, so you introduce non-meritocratic barriers like nationality. Starting on 2021, Polish and Bulgarians and so on will be barred from coming over and compete with the local workers. The winners are cocky, many of them are really the best - UK has a great talent pool. They have a great thing going on for them, and they believe that they can overcome EU, USA and China. The protection demand of the lower skill people seems to be served, shortly UK will start building it's non-merit based workforce(unless UK residency is a merit). The time comes to put the winners on test. This is indeed a bombshell to the cocky ones, the people who had a good thing going on for them and believed that due to their expectational abilities everything will be about the same or better. I still think that the UK would be able to find it's place in the new world order but many people will face bombshells as their freedoms and abilities to do business will get a haircut. EU's skilled ones will be protected from UK's in a similar fashion of UK's less-skilled are about to get their protection. It is not as meritocratic system as before but that's what people wanted.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  It is not what the “no downsides, only considerable upsides” crowd expected. Remember that a lot of people, and dodgy newspapers, still cry ‘project fear’ at any expert opinion, so concrete consequences like this are going to shock some people.
  - toyg 6y ago
    > not what the “no downsides, only considerable upsides” crowd expected. Oh no, most of them expected this sort of thing. They just stated otherwise to persuade the rubes.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - rsynnott 6y ago
      Not sure about that. Notoriously, David Davis, arch-brexiter, didn’t realise the UK couldn’t negotiate separate trade deals with EU states until after the Brexit vote. A lot of them are just confused.
- Ijumfs 6y ago
  Hard Brexit was what people elected the current government to do after the previous one dragged feet on soft Brexit for years.
IAmEveryone 6y ago
Sometimes, I feel like to achieve closure, I'd really need a thread where the people endlessly and repetitively insisting that Brexit is easy, would not impact trade, and would be worse for the EU than for the UK would show the grace of admitting that they very wrong, so very and obviously wrong. Similar for the beneficial effects of Hydroxychloroquine, for California basically having achieved herd immunity in May, and maybe for a few things from November 2008, although I thankfully don't remember specifics from that time. Maybe just one thread is more efficient, though, as I suspect the overlap among these groups to be far higher than random probability would suggest.
- stepstop 6y ago
  I understand what you meant, and would love to read that thread too! However, i don’t think it will come And I Also don’t think holding in that pain/disgust/anger is healthy.
- simonswords82 6y ago
  When the only debate being asked for is right versus wrong and the people on both sides are incapable of nuanced discussion it's a total waste of time.
- barrenko 6y ago
  Easy in the short run is hard in the long. We're all better off as loosely connected and trade oriented but autonomous neighbours.
  - sdoering 6y ago
    I find the idea interesting. Do you have data for me to study on the effects of such a political/economical system? Would love to find out more.
    - krona 6y ago
      Do you mean the effects of different forms of economic planning (centralized/decentralized) and democratic decision making? No, there is no research or data available, at all.
m0xte 6y ago
I’m in the UK. I can see this is going to mean a huge chunk of products disappearing from amazon here. A lot of stuff I order comes from Europe. So supply chain problems for months here we come! Fun times ahead. And no I didn’t vote for this shit show.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  At least now you get to keep those 350 million GBP a week. /s
  - zigzagzog 6y ago
    Freedom isn't free, there's a hefty f*ing fee.
  - smcl 6y ago
    I really wish someone bothered to hold his feet to the fire on that one. He just got to chuckle and shrug it off, and the reaction from most seems to be “lol oh that’s our Boris”
    - m0xte 6y ago
      Bit difficult when they control the press.
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      The way my British friends told me, nobody really took the brexit vote seriously and treated it like a Lord Buckethead, Boaty McBoat Face joke. At least until the mic dropped and the consequences of their joke vote became clear.
      - RantyDave 6y ago
        There were people on the TV the next morning all "I didn't think my vote would count" or "I just wanted to tell the government to stuff it".
      - 6y ago
AnssiH 6y ago
> In reality you might find impacts of the Amazon FBA Brexit bombshell start to impact you earlier. For instance, if you already have stock in Pan-European FBA it is feasible that Amazon will repatriate your stock before the end of the year and certainly are likely to stop sending your stock to Europe at an earlier date. I am very sceptical that they would do something like above, as there does not seem to be any reason to do so: - Amazon encourages you to have stock on both sides of the border to allow selling to continue as-is after the transition - repatriating stock automatically would run counter to that. - There is no legal reason to repatriate stock. The sellers that use Pan-European fulfillment already have to be VAT-registered in all countries that hold their stock, and those registrations will continue to be valid regardless of the EU membership of the seller's home country. - Amazon has not communicated that it is planning to do so (it has only said that it will stop transfers and fulfillment cross-border on 2021-01-01).
- raattgift 6y ago
  There is no agreement between the negotiators as yet on the repatriation of "stranded" goods after 1 January; the default will depend on any tax agreements between each of the member-states and the UK, virtually all of which pre-date the Single Market Act, and many of which predate the Single European Act (which will cease to grant any rights or impose any obligations on the UK at the end of this year). In general it is likely that moving goods of any sort -- including one's own personal property -- from a member-state to the UK will from 1 January incur formalities, with a risk of substantial financial liability to the UK's revenue & customs agency by the UK person importing the goods even if that person is conceptually "re-importing" property. Amazon also will want relief from liability under the law of bailment in England & Wales, and other specific contractual and statutory liability to the UK persons using the systems discussed in the article. The most obvious way to do that is for Amazon ("the bailee") to return the goods to any vendor in England or Wales ("the bailor"). The most obvious time to do that is well before 1 January after which either Amazon is exposed direct liability for import formalities or indirect liability to the (England-and-Wales) bailor. Another obvious approach is to convince the bailors to waive their rights, effectively writing off their interest in the goods that are in the EU in Amazon's control, possibly for some financial consideration. However, Amazon cannot be certain that it can sell on any such goods because there is as yet no agreement on e.g. Origin (and documentation via certificate of origin) requirements, nor on the continued validity of safety marks and other product labelling. Although it's unlikely that anyone seriously wants existing arrangements to suddenly halt at the end of this year, there remains a risk that a substantial number of UK-sourced goods in the EU prior to the end of December may simply become unsellable in the single market in January (I am less sure about goods (esp. "Mode 5") sourced in the non-EU SM member-states or states that are non-EU&non-SM members of the European Customs Union (EUCU), or the bilateral CU states, and unfortunately somewhat failed at avoiding the trap of calling it all "EU" in this comment, and the trap of thinking the legal positions are probably homogeneous, i.e., there won't be operative side-deals between UK and Turkey before the end of December). One very open set of questions involves "Mode 5" goods, wherein services are bundled with physical items. That includes warranties and guarantees for repairs, upgrade support including the upgrading of software that controls the physical items' operations, subscriptions bundled in with electronic book readers or the like, access to App Stores and similar. So far the UK government in particular has been focused on goods, not on services, including "Mode 5" services. Flipping things around, Single Market vendors with bailments in England (and Wales) may be unable to guarantee the continuation of "Mode 5" commitments on goods in E&W. In E&W the retailer would be liable for making good on those commitments or on making the retail customer whole (e.g. by issuing a refund or replacement). FBA does not provide clear legal immunity from retail liability in E&W, and it is easy to imagine litigation brought by e.g. the Consumers Association and other bodies under the super-complaints procedure in the (UK) Enterprise Act 2002 if FBA goods purchased after 1 January cannot have software upgrades or lose access to SM-based customer support. (They are likely safe from liability for such goods if sold before the end of this year.) (The law is somewhat different, and in relevant ways, in Scotland and Northern Ireland, but going into that would take too many characters :-) ) ETA: the issue here is the law of frustration of contract -- the expiration of the transition period in the withdrawal agreement may create frustrations notwithstanding careful drafting of contracts, and one possible result of a frustrated FBA contract is that the goods in question become involuntary bailments with Amazon as the bailee. This is a concrete risk for goods managed under contract with entities outside the UK. Single Market sellers with goods pre-positioned in the UK would by default have access to UK courts if needed to exercise (or clarify) their rights as involuntary bailors. Thus it is possibly in Amazon UK's interests to move SM-vendor goods from the UK to an Amazon EU facility in the Single Market or return it to the SM-based person who is the vendor, and to do so before the end of the year and with the consent of the SM vendors.
webscout 6y ago
Near a UK fulfilment center ca. 2031: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2Sgd9sc0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2Sgd9sc0M
nightcracker 6y ago
Another americentric post, seeing the upvotes it gets. This really isn't newsworthy. Amazon in Europe is small, having <10% of the e-commerce marketshare (compared to >50% in the US). For example, in the Netherlands people are much more likely to shop at Bol, Coolblue or Wehkamp.
- Reason077 6y ago
  In the UK, Amazon had >30% of all e-commerce marketshare in 2019. I've seen the huge volumes of Amazon packages that get delivered to my building. Especially during the pandemic lockdown!
- drogon50 6y ago
  It's more about not being able to sell as easily as now, from the UK to the EU, which has a population of 443m. It's yet another headwind for smaller UK companies, that will see their potential serviceable available market (SAM) get smaller, unless they spend extra. This will also significantly increase the time for the goods to arrive to EU destinations. You calling this "americentric" is also weird. It's going to be the same situation for all other e-commerce sites, no?
- morsch 6y ago
  Around 35% in Germany, comparable to the US. Couldn't find any statistics for the entire EU, where did you get <10% from? https://www.emarketer.com/content/amazon-remains-the-undisputed-no-1 https://www.emarketer.com/content/amazon-remains-the-undispu... https://www.onlinehaendler-news.de/online-handel/marktplaetze/131877-amazon-ein-drittel-deutschen-online-marktes https://www.onlinehaendler-news.de/online-handel/marktplaetz...
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Amazon is bigger in Europe than you think. And this is an indicator of a general Brexit-y problems; all small sellers will have to deal with this, not just Amazon marketplace ones.
Havoc 6y ago
Exiting single market means no longer being in the single market. Who could have predicted that? This whole thing is an embarrassing own goal
- d4rti 6y ago
  Dan Hannan and a bunch of the other dishonest brexiteers deliberately misled people into thinking they could be.
  - corty 6y ago
    It is a politician's modus operandi/job to mislead in order to achieve political goals. It would have been the job of the press to point out the problems and the job of the public to form a qualified opinion. Only the politicians did their jobs, unfortunately... (And yes, I'm a cynic)
    - pjc50 6y ago
      The press were largely campaigning for Brexit. Including one of the highest paid journalists in the entire campaign, Boris Johnson.
      - corty 6y ago
        The press pushing an agenda for either side and not remaining an impartial observer is a huge part of the problem, not only with Brexit. I'm not sure if in former times the press was just as opinionated and noone noticed. But now, people notice that the press isn't impartial and therefore just do not trust even the rare instances of impartial facts being presented.
        pjc50 6y ago
        British press has never really pretended to be impartial; the Daily Mail under Lord Rothermere ran pro-Hitler editorial until the war broke out. (My point about Johnson was that he was genuinely paid more for a while as a Times "columnist" than as Prime Minister)
Ambroos 6y ago
This is not going to be fun for Ireland. Ireland doesn't have its own regional Amazon, but the UK one would have great fast shipping. I wonder if shipping from Amazon DE or FR will be more popular in the future.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  I seem to remember that Ireland was planning on opening up more direct shipping routes to mainland Europe.
- AnssiH 6y ago
  Amazon might end free shipping to Ireland from amazon.co.uk and start doing it from amazon.de instead. This switch was done to a number of other European countries within the last decade (inc. Finland). edit: OTOH, I just realized Ireland uses the UK electrical plug, which complicates buying electric stuff from amazon.de a bit...
- netcan 6y ago
  There are services that take delivery in newry (northern ireland) and deliver to dublin. Presumably, they'll still work. Shipping to ireland often costs more anyway, and not everything ships outside the UK.
  - corty 6y ago
    Yes, that was also expected: Northern Ireland becoming a smugglers' haven...
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    I don't know how it would work, but the legal border of the EU customs union would be the NI/RoI border, but with some extra paperwork meaning, in practise, the border is the Irish Sea. Maybe asking a friend in Belfast to forward a parcel to Dublin will continue without any checks, but a parcel forwarding service is unlikely to go unnoticed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_and_the_Irish_border#2019_renegotiation:_New_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_and_the_Irish_border#20...
Reason077 6y ago
So stupid! The UK voted to keep Europeans from coming over here and taking our jobs and seducing our women with their sophisticated accents. There was nothing about blocking European goods and European fulfilment centres. Boris Johnson even assured us that it was going to be easy to get a "great deal" on free trade. This is not the Brexit we voted for!!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- hellofunk 6y ago
  > and our women with their sophisticated accents I also feel particularly terrible for women across Europe who will less often be catcalled by drunken Brits. It’s really the end of an era.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >taking our women Don't think you ever had to worry about that. ;)
  - fmajid 6y ago
    I disagree. As a French-American married to a Brit, I have to say British women are exceedingly good-looking for the most part.
- williamgrant 6y ago
  > The UK voted to keep Europeans from coming over here and taking our jobs and our women with their sophisticated accents. This comment expresses an appalling amount of xenophobia and classism. This warped, cartoonish portrayal of "Brexit" voters on HN is not unexpected, but it is disappointing it seems to escape moderation.
  - nickserv 6y ago
atemerev 6y ago
That’s all Brussel’s fault! (/s, obviously, but many Brits really think this way).
viraptor 6y ago
Does anyone know what could be a specific reason leading to this change? I mean, deeper than "no single market", what would prevent Amazon from running the same operation, potentially with slightly higher fees to offset relevant transport/import taxes. They ran marketplaces at crazy prices before, like shipping to Australia before local distribution centres.
- frereubu 6y ago
  Because it's still entirely unclear what the arrangements for trade will be, despite the fact that the transition agreement ends on 31st December. For example, the UK government are planning a number of huge lorry parks near the English Channel crossings to deal with new customs arrangements, whatever they may be, but they've only bought one location so far: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/12/local-anger-over-plans-for-post-brexit-lorry-park-at-ashford https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/12/local-anger... Edit: to be clearer about what my point is, Amazon relies enormously on friction-free shipping. It might make more sense for them to plan not to ship across a border for a while until it becomes clear what the logistics will be of shipping across that border, rather than guessing what it will be like and getting it horribly wrong. The possible outcomes range from a decent free-trade agreement with minimal disruption (although that seems vanishingly unlikely now) to a hard Brexit (i.e. no agreement) and an immediate sharp stop to frictionless cross-border trade.
- RantyDave 6y ago
  The paperwork is going to be a nightmare. Why wouldn't they change?
- Hamuko 6y ago
  Doesn't Amazon not deliver to Switzerland or something? I think I heard that Swiss people for example can't order from Amazon.co.jp. Meanwhile I can order from Amazon.co.jp to Finland and Amazon (or DHL) handles everything from shipping to VAT and to customs declaration.
  - CaptainZapp 6y ago
    I could be off, but here's what I recall: A couple years ago Switzerland changed the rules that companies shipping to Switzerland must collect and administer Swiss VAT and companies the size of Amazon said fuck it! and thus don't ship from the US any more. I suspect that the same goes for Amazon Japan.
tannhaeuser 6y ago
Of all things implied by Brexit, making business harder for AMZN and their sellers might end up boosting UK retail. Or maybe not, as everyone has to do the customs themselves. To me, characterizing this as a "bombshell" sounds like satire, ie mocking a proverbial Brexiteer sitting at home all day and ordering things on Amazon. OTOH, it's not plausible that this undertone could've been missed by Brits of all people.
acd 6y ago
This is an example why exiting global cooperation such as the European Union is bad for the economy. Another side effect may be that For example the real estate market in London goes lower due to less foreign professionals competing for housing. Plus the price of vegetable at the supermarket will be higher due to more expensive imports from Holland the gardeners of Europe and Spanish fruits being more expensive. There is a benefit less carbon emissions from transport. Amazon selling less may be good for the local economy in that local producer can sell more local made products. Consumers will be hurt as they can buy less goods for the same amount of money. As a European I hope UK will want to rejoin the EU. This will take time. I see price inflation in UK due to less foreign trade will lead to price increases. Inflation will make central banks raise interest rates which will make it more expensive with mortgages. I guess this was not the story UK brexit politicans sold to the UK people. And yes less income less income to UK national health service in form of taxes which was also not what was sold by politicians. Hope UK will rejoin EU soon. Frankly post Covid-19 the question is if UK can afford to exit EU.
- iso947 6y ago
  Foreign professionals still allowed in (points based system), and the London property market remains a great place to launder money. You’re right food prices will go up, but house prices won’t come down.
- saddlerustle 6y ago
  Why would imports of vegetables be more expensive? The EU doesn't have export tariffs.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    The UK has import duties. https://www.gov.uk/check-tariffs-1-january-2021 https://www.gov.uk/check-tariffs-1-january-2021
    - Someone1234 6y ago
      Which it could choose to zero rate if it stabilized food prices.
topbanana 6y ago
It'd be more noticeable if Chinese imports were curbed
wayanon 6y ago
..remind me how this is good for the UK?...
wayanon 6y ago
...brexiteers please remind me how this benefits the UK ?...
- cm2187 6y ago
  One immediate benefit. Not being on the hook for that shitshow: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/18/eu-leaders-reconvene-after-stormy-talks-over-750bn-recovery-package https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/18/eu-leaders-rec...

147 points by raattgift 6y ago

vilifiedtwin 6y ago

Journalists really are scraping the barrel here...

gdrift 6y ago

BFA (Fulfilment by Amazon) EFN (European Fulfilment Network)

bufferoverflow 6y ago
FBA, not BFA.
dhimes 6y ago
Thank you.

intsunny 6y ago

I fail to see the "bombshell" here. This is what everyone expected when leaving the EU single market. The only bombshell would be if the UK negotiators managed to prevent a hard Brexit. Given the current track record of their leading political party, this seems unlikely.

netcan 6y ago
Bombshell in the context of that website's subject/audience. Not a bombshell to the UK or world generally.
- the_duke 6y ago
  But why is this a bombshell (implying a surprise), rather than the natural, expected consequence of the UK leaving the customs union? I'd imagine continuing the current scheme would add a lot of regulatory and procedural complexity for Amazon, which they are unwilling to handle. Isn't this something that was expected by sellers?
  - netcan 6y ago
    bombshell = big news
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      I think the implication above was that while it was big, it wasn’t unexpected information.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      Wiktionary defines bombshell as "Something that is very surprising, shocking, amazing or sensational."
      - sangnoir 6y ago
        sensational = big news
  - rtempaccount1 6y ago
    I'd imagine it depends on how much attention the operators in this marketplace have been paying. If they've believed UK Government rhetoric about how Brexit will be a smooth process that will enhance the UK's trading opportunities, this may come as a surprise. There are (IMO) a reasonable number of UK citizens and businesses who haven't grasped the likely consequences of what's happening on 1/1/21
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      Oh yeah, and the current pandemic and its economic effects aren't helping the UK's brexit issues.
      - tannhaeuser 6y ago
        Not to add insult to injury, but it's been said that coronavirus actually plays into the hand of current UK gov as they have a scape goat if things go south.
SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
In context of Brexit, the inevitable consequences of the UK's actions is quite often a "bombshell" to the UK. The denial is strong.
- headmelted 6y ago
  This. You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. What's bizarre is that when challenged on how ridiculous that is, they'll immediately accept it as rational before saying "well we voted out anyway so it doesn't matter".
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > You really have to be here to believe the extent to which the average Joe on the street believes they'll be able to have their cake and eat it after this is settled. Still, nothing beats the cluelessness of pro-brexit British expats when they are faced with the consequences of what they demanded. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-spain-wake-future-change-200305140716114.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/brexit-voting-pats-sp...
  - eeh 6y ago
    Is it the average Joe, or is it the 95th percentile idiot that happens to get attention?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
      The 52% idiot.
      - pixxel 6y ago
        Go do this on twitter/reddit.
    - rsynnott 6y ago
      Polling has repeatedly shown very widespread public confusion over what Brexit will actually do. Even many remain voters don’t realise all the downsides.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
>This is what everyone expected when leaving the EU single market. Actually we were repeatedly told otherwise. Not that I believed any of it.
scaryclam 6y ago
Yes, "bombshell" is a pretty silly way of putting it. Any business with an even semi-competent leadership has been planning on the assumption that these types of things will be gone and are mitigating the issues as far as they can.
mrtksn 6y ago
UK had a great think going on but meritocracy creates both winners and losers. In a mixture of losers with cocky winners, you have people who overestimate their abilities and people who are bitter. The bitter ones demand protection against the people who come over and over-compete them, so you introduce non-meritocratic barriers like nationality. Starting on 2021, Polish and Bulgarians and so on will be barred from coming over and compete with the local workers. The winners are cocky, many of them are really the best - UK has a great talent pool. They have a great thing going on for them, and they believe that they can overcome EU, USA and China. The protection demand of the lower skill people seems to be served, shortly UK will start building it's non-merit based workforce(unless UK residency is a merit). The time comes to put the winners on test. This is indeed a bombshell to the cocky ones, the people who had a good thing going on for them and believed that due to their expectational abilities everything will be about the same or better. I still think that the UK would be able to find it's place in the new world order but many people will face bombshells as their freedoms and abilities to do business will get a haircut. EU's skilled ones will be protected from UK's in a similar fashion of UK's less-skilled are about to get their protection. It is not as meritocratic system as before but that's what people wanted.
rsynnott 6y ago
It is not what the “no downsides, only considerable upsides” crowd expected. Remember that a lot of people, and dodgy newspapers, still cry ‘project fear’ at any expert opinion, so concrete consequences like this are going to shock some people.
- toyg 6y ago
  > not what the “no downsides, only considerable upsides” crowd expected. Oh no, most of them expected this sort of thing. They just stated otherwise to persuade the rubes.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - rsynnott 6y ago
    Not sure about that. Notoriously, David Davis, arch-brexiter, didn’t realise the UK couldn’t negotiate separate trade deals with EU states until after the Brexit vote. A lot of them are just confused.
Ijumfs 6y ago
Hard Brexit was what people elected the current government to do after the previous one dragged feet on soft Brexit for years.

IAmEveryone 6y ago

Sometimes, I feel like to achieve closure, I'd really need a thread where the people endlessly and repetitively insisting that Brexit is easy, would not impact trade, and would be worse for the EU than for the UK would show the grace of admitting that they very wrong, so very and obviously wrong. Similar for the beneficial effects of Hydroxychloroquine, for California basically having achieved herd immunity in May, and maybe for a few things from November 2008, although I thankfully don't remember specifics from that time. Maybe just one thread is more efficient, though, as I suspect the overlap among these groups to be far higher than random probability would suggest.

stepstop 6y ago
I understand what you meant, and would love to read that thread too! However, i don’t think it will come And I Also don’t think holding in that pain/disgust/anger is healthy.
simonswords82 6y ago
When the only debate being asked for is right versus wrong and the people on both sides are incapable of nuanced discussion it's a total waste of time.
barrenko 6y ago
Easy in the short run is hard in the long. We're all better off as loosely connected and trade oriented but autonomous neighbours.
- sdoering 6y ago
  I find the idea interesting. Do you have data for me to study on the effects of such a political/economical system? Would love to find out more.
  - krona 6y ago
    Do you mean the effects of different forms of economic planning (centralized/decentralized) and democratic decision making? No, there is no research or data available, at all.

m0xte 6y ago

I’m in the UK. I can see this is going to mean a huge chunk of products disappearing from amazon here. A lot of stuff I order comes from Europe. So supply chain problems for months here we come! Fun times ahead. And no I didn’t vote for this shit show.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
At least now you get to keep those 350 million GBP a week. /s
- zigzagzog 6y ago
  Freedom isn't free, there's a hefty f*ing fee.
- smcl 6y ago
  I really wish someone bothered to hold his feet to the fire on that one. He just got to chuckle and shrug it off, and the reaction from most seems to be “lol oh that’s our Boris”
  - m0xte 6y ago
    Bit difficult when they control the press.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    The way my British friends told me, nobody really took the brexit vote seriously and treated it like a Lord Buckethead, Boaty McBoat Face joke. At least until the mic dropped and the consequences of their joke vote became clear.
    - RantyDave 6y ago
      There were people on the TV the next morning all "I didn't think my vote would count" or "I just wanted to tell the government to stuff it".
    - 6y ago

AnssiH 6y ago

> In reality you might find impacts of the Amazon FBA Brexit bombshell start to impact you earlier. For instance, if you already have stock in Pan-European FBA it is feasible that Amazon will repatriate your stock before the end of the year and certainly are likely to stop sending your stock to Europe at an earlier date. I am very sceptical that they would do something like above, as there does not seem to be any reason to do so: - Amazon encourages you to have stock on both sides of the border to allow selling to continue as-is after the transition - repatriating stock automatically would run counter to that. - There is no legal reason to repatriate stock. The sellers that use Pan-European fulfillment already have to be VAT-registered in all countries that hold their stock, and those registrations will continue to be valid regardless of the EU membership of the seller's home country. - Amazon has not communicated that it is planning to do so (it has only said that it will stop transfers and fulfillment cross-border on 2021-01-01).

raattgift 6y ago
There is no agreement between the negotiators as yet on the repatriation of "stranded" goods after 1 January; the default will depend on any tax agreements between each of the member-states and the UK, virtually all of which pre-date the Single Market Act, and many of which predate the Single European Act (which will cease to grant any rights or impose any obligations on the UK at the end of this year). In general it is likely that moving goods of any sort -- including one's own personal property -- from a member-state to the UK will from 1 January incur formalities, with a risk of substantial financial liability to the UK's revenue & customs agency by the UK person importing the goods even if that person is conceptually "re-importing" property. Amazon also will want relief from liability under the law of bailment in England & Wales, and other specific contractual and statutory liability to the UK persons using the systems discussed in the article. The most obvious way to do that is for Amazon ("the bailee") to return the goods to any vendor in England or Wales ("the bailor"). The most obvious time to do that is well before 1 January after which either Amazon is exposed direct liability for import formalities or indirect liability to the (England-and-Wales) bailor. Another obvious approach is to convince the bailors to waive their rights, effectively writing off their interest in the goods that are in the EU in Amazon's control, possibly for some financial consideration. However, Amazon cannot be certain that it can sell on any such goods because there is as yet no agreement on e.g. Origin (and documentation via certificate of origin) requirements, nor on the continued validity of safety marks and other product labelling. Although it's unlikely that anyone seriously wants existing arrangements to suddenly halt at the end of this year, there remains a risk that a substantial number of UK-sourced goods in the EU prior to the end of December may simply become unsellable in the single market in January (I am less sure about goods (esp. "Mode 5") sourced in the non-EU SM member-states or states that are non-EU&non-SM members of the European Customs Union (EUCU), or the bilateral CU states, and unfortunately somewhat failed at avoiding the trap of calling it all "EU" in this comment, and the trap of thinking the legal positions are probably homogeneous, i.e., there won't be operative side-deals between UK and Turkey before the end of December). One very open set of questions involves "Mode 5" goods, wherein services are bundled with physical items. That includes warranties and guarantees for repairs, upgrade support including the upgrading of software that controls the physical items' operations, subscriptions bundled in with electronic book readers or the like, access to App Stores and similar. So far the UK government in particular has been focused on goods, not on services, including "Mode 5" services. Flipping things around, Single Market vendors with bailments in England (and Wales) may be unable to guarantee the continuation of "Mode 5" commitments on goods in E&W. In E&W the retailer would be liable for making good on those commitments or on making the retail customer whole (e.g. by issuing a refund or replacement). FBA does not provide clear legal immunity from retail liability in E&W, and it is easy to imagine litigation brought by e.g. the Consumers Association and other bodies under the super-complaints procedure in the (UK) Enterprise Act 2002 if FBA goods purchased after 1 January cannot have software upgrades or lose access to SM-based customer support. (They are likely safe from liability for such goods if sold before the end of this year.) (The law is somewhat different, and in relevant ways, in Scotland and Northern Ireland, but going into that would take too many characters :-) ) ETA: the issue here is the law of frustration of contract -- the expiration of the transition period in the withdrawal agreement may create frustrations notwithstanding careful drafting of contracts, and one possible result of a frustrated FBA contract is that the goods in question become involuntary bailments with Amazon as the bailee. This is a concrete risk for goods managed under contract with entities outside the UK. Single Market sellers with goods pre-positioned in the UK would by default have access to UK courts if needed to exercise (or clarify) their rights as involuntary bailors. Thus it is possibly in Amazon UK's interests to move SM-vendor goods from the UK to an Amazon EU facility in the Single Market or return it to the SM-based person who is the vendor, and to do so before the end of the year and with the consent of the SM vendors.

webscout 6y ago

Near a UK fulfilment center ca. 2031: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2Sgd9sc0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2Sgd9sc0M

nightcracker 6y ago

Another americentric post, seeing the upvotes it gets. This really isn't newsworthy. Amazon in Europe is small, having <10% of the e-commerce marketshare (compared to >50% in the US). For example, in the Netherlands people are much more likely to shop at Bol, Coolblue or Wehkamp.

Reason077 6y ago
In the UK, Amazon had >30% of all e-commerce marketshare in 2019. I've seen the huge volumes of Amazon packages that get delivered to my building. Especially during the pandemic lockdown!
drogon50 6y ago
It's more about not being able to sell as easily as now, from the UK to the EU, which has a population of 443m. It's yet another headwind for smaller UK companies, that will see their potential serviceable available market (SAM) get smaller, unless they spend extra. This will also significantly increase the time for the goods to arrive to EU destinations. You calling this "americentric" is also weird. It's going to be the same situation for all other e-commerce sites, no?
morsch 6y ago
Around 35% in Germany, comparable to the US. Couldn't find any statistics for the entire EU, where did you get <10% from? https://www.emarketer.com/content/amazon-remains-the-undisputed-no-1 https://www.emarketer.com/content/amazon-remains-the-undispu... https://www.onlinehaendler-news.de/online-handel/marktplaetze/131877-amazon-ein-drittel-deutschen-online-marktes https://www.onlinehaendler-news.de/online-handel/marktplaetz...
rsynnott 6y ago
Amazon is bigger in Europe than you think. And this is an indicator of a general Brexit-y problems; all small sellers will have to deal with this, not just Amazon marketplace ones.

Havoc 6y ago

Exiting single market means no longer being in the single market. Who could have predicted that? This whole thing is an embarrassing own goal

d4rti 6y ago
Dan Hannan and a bunch of the other dishonest brexiteers deliberately misled people into thinking they could be.
- corty 6y ago
  It is a politician's modus operandi/job to mislead in order to achieve political goals. It would have been the job of the press to point out the problems and the job of the public to form a qualified opinion. Only the politicians did their jobs, unfortunately... (And yes, I'm a cynic)
  - pjc50 6y ago
    The press were largely campaigning for Brexit. Including one of the highest paid journalists in the entire campaign, Boris Johnson.
    - corty 6y ago
      The press pushing an agenda for either side and not remaining an impartial observer is a huge part of the problem, not only with Brexit. I'm not sure if in former times the press was just as opinionated and noone noticed. But now, people notice that the press isn't impartial and therefore just do not trust even the rare instances of impartial facts being presented.
      - pjc50 6y ago
        British press has never really pretended to be impartial; the Daily Mail under Lord Rothermere ran pro-Hitler editorial until the war broke out. (My point about Johnson was that he was genuinely paid more for a while as a Times "columnist" than as Prime Minister)

Ambroos 6y ago

This is not going to be fun for Ireland. Ireland doesn't have its own regional Amazon, but the UK one would have great fast shipping. I wonder if shipping from Amazon DE or FR will be more popular in the future.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I seem to remember that Ireland was planning on opening up more direct shipping routes to mainland Europe.
AnssiH 6y ago
Amazon might end free shipping to Ireland from amazon.co.uk and start doing it from amazon.de instead. This switch was done to a number of other European countries within the last decade (inc. Finland). edit: OTOH, I just realized Ireland uses the UK electrical plug, which complicates buying electric stuff from amazon.de a bit...
netcan 6y ago
There are services that take delivery in newry (northern ireland) and deliver to dublin. Presumably, they'll still work. Shipping to ireland often costs more anyway, and not everything ships outside the UK.
- corty 6y ago
  Yes, that was also expected: Northern Ireland becoming a smugglers' haven...
- Symbiote 6y ago
  I don't know how it would work, but the legal border of the EU customs union would be the NI/RoI border, but with some extra paperwork meaning, in practise, the border is the Irish Sea. Maybe asking a friend in Belfast to forward a parcel to Dublin will continue without any checks, but a parcel forwarding service is unlikely to go unnoticed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_and_the_Irish_border#2019_renegotiation:_New_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_and_the_Irish_border#20...

Reason077 6y ago

So stupid! The UK voted to keep Europeans from coming over here and taking our jobs and seducing our women with their sophisticated accents. There was nothing about blocking European goods and European fulfilment centres. Boris Johnson even assured us that it was going to be easy to get a "great deal" on free trade. This is not the Brexit we voted for!!

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hellofunk 6y ago
> and our women with their sophisticated accents I also feel particularly terrible for women across Europe who will less often be catcalled by drunken Brits. It’s really the end of an era.
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ChuckNorris89 6y ago
>taking our women Don't think you ever had to worry about that. ;)
- fmajid 6y ago
  I disagree. As a French-American married to a Brit, I have to say British women are exceedingly good-looking for the most part.
williamgrant 6y ago
> The UK voted to keep Europeans from coming over here and taking our jobs and our women with their sophisticated accents. This comment expresses an appalling amount of xenophobia and classism. This warped, cartoonish portrayal of "Brexit" voters on HN is not unexpected, but it is disappointing it seems to escape moderation.
- nickserv 6y ago

atemerev 6y ago

That’s all Brussel’s fault! (/s, obviously, but many Brits really think this way).

viraptor 6y ago

Does anyone know what could be a specific reason leading to this change? I mean, deeper than "no single market", what would prevent Amazon from running the same operation, potentially with slightly higher fees to offset relevant transport/import taxes. They ran marketplaces at crazy prices before, like shipping to Australia before local distribution centres.

frereubu 6y ago
Because it's still entirely unclear what the arrangements for trade will be, despite the fact that the transition agreement ends on 31st December. For example, the UK government are planning a number of huge lorry parks near the English Channel crossings to deal with new customs arrangements, whatever they may be, but they've only bought one location so far: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/12/local-anger-over-plans-for-post-brexit-lorry-park-at-ashford https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/12/local-anger... Edit: to be clearer about what my point is, Amazon relies enormously on friction-free shipping. It might make more sense for them to plan not to ship across a border for a while until it becomes clear what the logistics will be of shipping across that border, rather than guessing what it will be like and getting it horribly wrong. The possible outcomes range from a decent free-trade agreement with minimal disruption (although that seems vanishingly unlikely now) to a hard Brexit (i.e. no agreement) and an immediate sharp stop to frictionless cross-border trade.
RantyDave 6y ago
The paperwork is going to be a nightmare. Why wouldn't they change?
Hamuko 6y ago
Doesn't Amazon not deliver to Switzerland or something? I think I heard that Swiss people for example can't order from Amazon.co.jp. Meanwhile I can order from Amazon.co.jp to Finland and Amazon (or DHL) handles everything from shipping to VAT and to customs declaration.
- CaptainZapp 6y ago
  I could be off, but here's what I recall: A couple years ago Switzerland changed the rules that companies shipping to Switzerland must collect and administer Swiss VAT and companies the size of Amazon said fuck it! and thus don't ship from the US any more. I suspect that the same goes for Amazon Japan.

tannhaeuser 6y ago

Of all things implied by Brexit, making business harder for AMZN and their sellers might end up boosting UK retail. Or maybe not, as everyone has to do the customs themselves. To me, characterizing this as a "bombshell" sounds like satire, ie mocking a proverbial Brexiteer sitting at home all day and ordering things on Amazon. OTOH, it's not plausible that this undertone could've been missed by Brits of all people.

acd 6y ago

This is an example why exiting global cooperation such as the European Union is bad for the economy. Another side effect may be that For example the real estate market in London goes lower due to less foreign professionals competing for housing. Plus the price of vegetable at the supermarket will be higher due to more expensive imports from Holland the gardeners of Europe and Spanish fruits being more expensive. There is a benefit less carbon emissions from transport. Amazon selling less may be good for the local economy in that local producer can sell more local made products. Consumers will be hurt as they can buy less goods for the same amount of money. As a European I hope UK will want to rejoin the EU. This will take time. I see price inflation in UK due to less foreign trade will lead to price increases. Inflation will make central banks raise interest rates which will make it more expensive with mortgages. I guess this was not the story UK brexit politicans sold to the UK people. And yes less income less income to UK national health service in form of taxes which was also not what was sold by politicians. Hope UK will rejoin EU soon. Frankly post Covid-19 the question is if UK can afford to exit EU.

iso947 6y ago
Foreign professionals still allowed in (points based system), and the London property market remains a great place to launder money. You’re right food prices will go up, but house prices won’t come down.
saddlerustle 6y ago
Why would imports of vegetables be more expensive? The EU doesn't have export tariffs.
- DanBC 6y ago
  The UK has import duties. https://www.gov.uk/check-tariffs-1-january-2021 https://www.gov.uk/check-tariffs-1-january-2021
  - Someone1234 6y ago
    Which it could choose to zero rate if it stabilized food prices.

topbanana 6y ago

It'd be more noticeable if Chinese imports were curbed

wayanon 6y ago

..remind me how this is good for the UK?...

wayanon 6y ago

...brexiteers please remind me how this benefits the UK ?...

cm2187 6y ago
One immediate benefit. Not being on the hook for that shitshow: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/18/eu-leaders-reconvene-after-stormy-talks-over-750bn-recovery-package https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/18/eu-leaders-rec...