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People think military is cool, even those who are against the military are donned in milspic gear and want to train with their tactics. Twitch makes it cooler.

People think military is cool, even those who are against the military are donned in milspic gear and want to train with their tactics. Twitch makes it cooler. I don't understand why its so upsetting, I thought the military was cool before they were on twitch, before I watched movies on them just because as a kid I thought they were strong ant powerful people that excelled at war, kill or be killed. Military gets great treatment and I don't see what the problem is. Do we consider action figures of GI Joe a recruitment problem? >I had just reminded viewers of the United States’ history of atrocities around the globe, and helpfully provided a link to the Wikipedia page for US war crimes. Can you name any military that hasn't done anything wrong? Not unique to any military >The practices employed on Twitch by military e-sports teams are part of a system by which recruiters target children in unstable and/or disadvantaged situations. Recruiters take advantage of the poor seeking steady income, the vulnerable longing for stability, and the undocumented living in fear because of their citizenship status. Now, at a time when all those factors are magnified by a pandemic that has left half the country out of work and over 30 percent unable to afford their housing payments, conditions are ripe for recruiters to prey on anxious youth. Prey on anxious youth? Seriously, it's like they assume nobody wants to join the military for any reason, if it wasn't for the pandemic. Giving young disadvantaged kids discipline when their parents don't isn't bad. The article brings up military sexual trauma and suicide as if that is not going to happen anywhere but the military, or if its a normal thing. I have family in the military, in fact that is how my family immigrated to the US due to a great uncle serving in the military. >“Twitch is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in my career, and it’s because you’re live for hours on end, talking to these people in the chat. You develop a community and know your individual chatters. There is an ecosystem in every Twitch channel,” Piker said. “Recruiting in this predatory way is a violation of [the users’] safety.” Seriously? You can find that kind of community on chaturbate or any of the sex streaming sites.

atlasunshrugged 6y ago
Yeah I also thought they went pretty over the top, I also don't know why the demographics of Twitch would map to "poor seeking steady income, the vulnerable longing for stability..." I mean are the poorest kids in the U.S. and those in unstable environments really on Twitch for hours on end? Maybe, but those seem like exactly the kids who wouldn't have as good access to wifi and computers as slightly wealthier families.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  Depends where you live, I know someone who joined to remove a DUI, my cousin was not poor and just wanted discipline before joining a biotech phd program with the military paying for it. Poor kids are not online for hours on twitch, they are caring for their other siblings while their parents are at work, and probably playing or helping with homework, not watching hours of their favorite US military streamer play CoD.
  - atlasunshrugged 6y ago
    You can remove criminal offenses? Wow, I think I'd seen that in movies (or maybe that Simpsons episode about Seymour Skinner?) but didn't realize it was really a thing
    - Waterfall 6y ago
      The judge let him go because he told me he needed a licence for driving the amphibious vehicle and he wouldn't be able to do it if he got a DUI so it was dismissed, but hes told me about screaming camel spiders I googled and called him out on. I don't think he lied about that one though but I'm just rehashing what he told me.
ceilingcorner 6y ago
Disappointing that this is so downvoted. Say what you want about militaries as a general concept, but compared to essentially any prior state/country/empire in the history of the world, the American military is remarkably benign, especially considering their overwhelming military strength in comparison to rivals. If the Americans had even 10% of the imperialistic mentality of the Roman Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, Japanese Empire, Mughal Empire, etc., the entire world would be a single imperial state. That certainly doesn't justify the numerous crimes that the American military has done, but context is key, and like should be compared with like.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  I don't think that's true. Warfare in general has advanced quite a bit, and expertise exists in many places. You can't really hold an empire with just force these days. The US would crumble under an attempt to take over anything more than North America. The approach of the modern superpower is much more effective: decentralized power but overall alignment. There's no coincidence to America's approach. It isn't ideological. It's pragmatic.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    Maybe that is true today, but: 1) Much of that expertise has come directly from US involvement. See: Western Europe, Japan, Korea. 2) Much of the other expertise developed specifically because of US non-involvement. See: the Soviet Union and the states it influenced and supported. There were even plans to attack/nuke the Soviets, who were the only real rival post-WW2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable Had the U.S. wished to, it could have easily formed an imperial state following WW2. That would have been in-line with essentially every large state in human history. Thankfully, they didn't, and the world is better off for it.
    - analyst74 6y ago
      The invention of nukes and a couple failed military campaigns were probably bigger factor.
cheez 6y ago
I think the US army (or maybe modern armies) might be the only army I know of that actually tries not to be evil officially. Compared to armies of the past where there was no pretense. Not saying it's any different in practice but....
- fit2rule 6y ago
  In practice, the US military is one of the most dire, evil organisations on the planet. But you'd have to have been one of the 5 million victims of its illegal wars in the last few years to understand that. You will never understand why a majority of the world despises the USA for its military evils, unless you've been on the receiving end of its terrorism - its propaganda is so good, that a majority of American citizens don't understand at all how anyone could consider it the #1 cause of crimes against humanity in the world today. Iraq lost 5% of its population because America loves its military and needs to use it. That's pretty evil.
  - atlasunshrugged 6y ago
    I understand the argument and empathize with it but is it really the military or the politicians who sent them who are responsible? Would the military independently initiate something like the Iraq war? Maybe, but I'm not so sure - I mean there are definitely tons of hawks and some people with extremist views, but I think generally they would prefer to fight a different type of war more akin to the traditional "glorious" battles of WWII rather than urban combat fighting hidden enemies and getting blown up by IEDs
    - fit2rule 6y ago
      If you are part of an industry that willingly drops bombs on children using robots piloted by cowards hiding in a strip mall on the other side of the world, and if you propagate war games industries in order to have cannon fodder (your own citizens' children) to recruit from, then you are pretty much evil, yes. If you participate in this heinous activity for 20 years without repercussion, then there is something completely and utterly wrong going on. The evil is systemic.
jariel 6y ago
Even though I suppose many do find it 'cool' and the military probably likes to use that ... as someone who spent time in the service, I wish they would focus more on the 'dutiful' aspects of it all. I felt cool for about 10 minutes the first time I held a weapon, then it was definitely a 'responsibility'. That said, not sure how great it would as recruiting tool to focus on issues of community responsibility and duty.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  I think that is what the national guard does but I am not sure. Many people join for a few years and leave. The coolness was just my perception. Depending on what job such as arabic translator it could be seen very much as responsibility.
fulafel 6y ago
If you replace military with street gang in this post, it works just as well.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  >People think street gang is cool, even those who are against the street gang are donned in street gang gear and want to train with street gang tactics. Can you name a street gang that pays your college?
  - bzb3 6y ago
    The van Buren Boys. (Not directly)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - fulafel 6y ago
    I stand corrected, there are indeed some compensation perks compared to street gangs. But the converse is also true, street gangs have some advantages in compensation (eg don't pay taxes from criminal activities proceeds). My intention was to draw attention to the ethics though.
    - Waterfall 6y ago
      You might like the Mexican thread. They call the government/narcos just a bunch of thugs or the appearance of legitimacy. Protection rackets and all.
watwut 6y ago
> as a kid I thought they were strong ant powerful people that excelled at war, kill or be killed That is because most popular depiction of military amount to propaganda and is designed to make you feel good about military. It does not show the ugly or boring or realistic parts of it. You pretty much never see movie from point of view of civilians living in the place where military operates. Military would not be so cool looking there. Even death in combat or mistreating civilians is depicted in a way that makes you want to join fight. More realistic (and less popular) depictions don't have thay effect. What you wrote is just propaganda internalized.
- Waterfall 6y ago
  You're saying it's weird that kids like tanks, supersonic aircraft and and nuclear submarines? Technology is cool. You didn't think the blackbird was really cool? I never thought only the US military was cool, powerful machines facinate boys without propaganda. I liked monster trucks and crushing machines too and I bet lots of other boys did too despite their non military function.
  - watwut 6y ago
    But as a kid I also read books about civilians in war time. I seen photos of bombed cities and read memoirs of people who went through it. Journals would have that every year at milestones. There were those sad movies about kids in war time too. No, the war was not unambiguous cool good as far as I remember. I never perceived it as cool technology only, it was never framed to me that way. My grandma used to say that war is horrible. The grandparents generally did not liked it and did not liked movies with shooting and bombing. They added details only later, the stuff they personally seen, when I was adult, but when I was kid they would at least generally say it was bad.
    - Waterfall 6y ago
      What is the war you talk about? I was always interested in cool technology, not war. Often, the military had cool technology. I remember reading a book, how things work and it explained lots of things to me, like how airplanes fly, so I wanted to look up the fastest one and the blackbird was really cool. I love machines and used to take apart clocks to (try to) fix them too. I wasn't interested in guns despite them being in every military game, they just exploded a bullet from a shell in various ways. Some things had a horrible magnificence like when the US bombed Los Alamo's US soldiers and the men in a documentary talked about how beautiful it was, or the terrifying effect of white phosphorus. After writing this, I think I liked the idea of the power and leanness of the military ( wanted their gear because milspec means hardy), but also thought they had the coolest toys to play with.

atlasunshrugged 6y ago

Yeah I also thought they went pretty over the top, I also don't know why the demographics of Twitch would map to "poor seeking steady income, the vulnerable longing for stability..." I mean are the poorest kids in the U.S. and those in unstable environments really on Twitch for hours on end? Maybe, but those seem like exactly the kids who wouldn't have as good access to wifi and computers as slightly wealthier families.

Waterfall 6y ago
Depends where you live, I know someone who joined to remove a DUI, my cousin was not poor and just wanted discipline before joining a biotech phd program with the military paying for it. Poor kids are not online for hours on twitch, they are caring for their other siblings while their parents are at work, and probably playing or helping with homework, not watching hours of their favorite US military streamer play CoD.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  You can remove criminal offenses? Wow, I think I'd seen that in movies (or maybe that Simpsons episode about Seymour Skinner?) but didn't realize it was really a thing
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    The judge let him go because he told me he needed a licence for driving the amphibious vehicle and he wouldn't be able to do it if he got a DUI so it was dismissed, but hes told me about screaming camel spiders I googled and called him out on. I don't think he lied about that one though but I'm just rehashing what he told me.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

Disappointing that this is so downvoted. Say what you want about militaries as a general concept, but compared to essentially any prior state/country/empire in the history of the world, the American military is remarkably benign, especially considering their overwhelming military strength in comparison to rivals. If the Americans had even 10% of the imperialistic mentality of the Roman Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire, Japanese Empire, Mughal Empire, etc., the entire world would be a single imperial state. That certainly doesn't justify the numerous crimes that the American military has done, but context is key, and like should be compared with like.

renewiltord 6y ago
I don't think that's true. Warfare in general has advanced quite a bit, and expertise exists in many places. You can't really hold an empire with just force these days. The US would crumble under an attempt to take over anything more than North America. The approach of the modern superpower is much more effective: decentralized power but overall alignment. There's no coincidence to America's approach. It isn't ideological. It's pragmatic.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Maybe that is true today, but: 1) Much of that expertise has come directly from US involvement. See: Western Europe, Japan, Korea. 2) Much of the other expertise developed specifically because of US non-involvement. See: the Soviet Union and the states it influenced and supported. There were even plans to attack/nuke the Soviets, who were the only real rival post-WW2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable Had the U.S. wished to, it could have easily formed an imperial state following WW2. That would have been in-line with essentially every large state in human history. Thankfully, they didn't, and the world is better off for it.
  - analyst74 6y ago
    The invention of nukes and a couple failed military campaigns were probably bigger factor.

cheez 6y ago

I think the US army (or maybe modern armies) might be the only army I know of that actually tries not to be evil officially. Compared to armies of the past where there was no pretense. Not saying it's any different in practice but....

fit2rule 6y ago
In practice, the US military is one of the most dire, evil organisations on the planet. But you'd have to have been one of the 5 million victims of its illegal wars in the last few years to understand that. You will never understand why a majority of the world despises the USA for its military evils, unless you've been on the receiving end of its terrorism - its propaganda is so good, that a majority of American citizens don't understand at all how anyone could consider it the #1 cause of crimes against humanity in the world today. Iraq lost 5% of its population because America loves its military and needs to use it. That's pretty evil.
- atlasunshrugged 6y ago
  I understand the argument and empathize with it but is it really the military or the politicians who sent them who are responsible? Would the military independently initiate something like the Iraq war? Maybe, but I'm not so sure - I mean there are definitely tons of hawks and some people with extremist views, but I think generally they would prefer to fight a different type of war more akin to the traditional "glorious" battles of WWII rather than urban combat fighting hidden enemies and getting blown up by IEDs
  - fit2rule 6y ago
    If you are part of an industry that willingly drops bombs on children using robots piloted by cowards hiding in a strip mall on the other side of the world, and if you propagate war games industries in order to have cannon fodder (your own citizens' children) to recruit from, then you are pretty much evil, yes. If you participate in this heinous activity for 20 years without repercussion, then there is something completely and utterly wrong going on. The evil is systemic.

jariel 6y ago

Even though I suppose many do find it 'cool' and the military probably likes to use that ... as someone who spent time in the service, I wish they would focus more on the 'dutiful' aspects of it all. I felt cool for about 10 minutes the first time I held a weapon, then it was definitely a 'responsibility'. That said, not sure how great it would as recruiting tool to focus on issues of community responsibility and duty.

Waterfall 6y ago
I think that is what the national guard does but I am not sure. Many people join for a few years and leave. The coolness was just my perception. Depending on what job such as arabic translator it could be seen very much as responsibility.

fulafel 6y ago

If you replace military with street gang in this post, it works just as well.

Waterfall 6y ago
>People think street gang is cool, even those who are against the street gang are donned in street gang gear and want to train with street gang tactics. Can you name a street gang that pays your college?
- bzb3 6y ago
  The van Buren Boys. (Not directly)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fulafel 6y ago
  I stand corrected, there are indeed some compensation perks compared to street gangs. But the converse is also true, street gangs have some advantages in compensation (eg don't pay taxes from criminal activities proceeds). My intention was to draw attention to the ethics though.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    You might like the Mexican thread. They call the government/narcos just a bunch of thugs or the appearance of legitimacy. Protection rackets and all.

watwut 6y ago

> as a kid I thought they were strong ant powerful people that excelled at war, kill or be killed That is because most popular depiction of military amount to propaganda and is designed to make you feel good about military. It does not show the ugly or boring or realistic parts of it. You pretty much never see movie from point of view of civilians living in the place where military operates. Military would not be so cool looking there. Even death in combat or mistreating civilians is depicted in a way that makes you want to join fight. More realistic (and less popular) depictions don't have thay effect. What you wrote is just propaganda internalized.

Waterfall 6y ago
You're saying it's weird that kids like tanks, supersonic aircraft and and nuclear submarines? Technology is cool. You didn't think the blackbird was really cool? I never thought only the US military was cool, powerful machines facinate boys without propaganda. I liked monster trucks and crushing machines too and I bet lots of other boys did too despite their non military function.
- watwut 6y ago
  But as a kid I also read books about civilians in war time. I seen photos of bombed cities and read memoirs of people who went through it. Journals would have that every year at milestones. There were those sad movies about kids in war time too. No, the war was not unambiguous cool good as far as I remember. I never perceived it as cool technology only, it was never framed to me that way. My grandma used to say that war is horrible. The grandparents generally did not liked it and did not liked movies with shooting and bombing. They added details only later, the stuff they personally seen, when I was adult, but when I was kid they would at least generally say it was bad.
  - Waterfall 6y ago
    What is the war you talk about? I was always interested in cool technology, not war. Often, the military had cool technology. I remember reading a book, how things work and it explained lots of things to me, like how airplanes fly, so I wanted to look up the fastest one and the blackbird was really cool. I love machines and used to take apart clocks to (try to) fix them too. I wasn't interested in guns despite them being in every military game, they just exploded a bullet from a shell in various ways. Some things had a horrible magnificence like when the US bombed Los Alamo's US soldiers and the men in a documentary talked about how beautiful it was, or the terrifying effect of white phosphorus. After writing this, I think I liked the idea of the power and leanness of the military ( wanted their gear because milspec means hardy), but also thought they had the coolest toys to play with.