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Black people couldn't participate fully in the LDS church, as a matter of policy, until 1978, and the church has published materials suggesting against interrac

Black people couldn't participate fully in the LDS church, as a matter of policy, until 1978, and the church has published materials suggesting against interracial dating and marriage in the last 20 years. Combined with governmental policies like redlining of majority black neighborhoods, I think it's fair to say that the lack of diversity in Utah isn't the natural state of affairs, and required intentional investment to cultivate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
> Black people couldn't participate fully in the LDS church, as a matter of policy, until 1978 True, and deplorable. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28). It seems the LDS church was rather late in getting the memo. Still... that was 42 years ago. It seems a bit of a stretch to say that that's why there are so few blacks in Utah today. (And even pre-1978, you could live in Utah without being LDS.) > Combined with governmental policies like redlining of majority black neighborhoods, I think it's fair to say that the lack of diversity in Utah isn't the natural state of affairs Redlining is also deplorable. But did it happen in Utah? I ask because I'm not sure Utah has any majority-black neighborhoods. And even then, for there to be redlining, the blacks have to already be here. If they came here, they couldn't buy a home because of redlining? As opposed to anywhere else, where they... also couldn't buy a home because of redlining? Or is the claim that Utah had redlining later than everywhere else? I don't see the logic for your redlining claim to have any relevance to the question of why Utah is not diverse.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  > It seems a bit of a stretch to say that that's why there are so few blacks in Utah today. Does it? Because to me it doesn't seem like much of a stretch at all to suspect that being entirely unwelcoming to black people would discourage black people from moving there (and encourage black people already there to leave at the earliest opportunity).
- lsiebert 6y ago
  I'm not an expert on Utah or on racism, but I know that SLC and Ogden, both cities in Utah, had HOLC maps with redlining. There were Black people in Utah before the LDS church. There were Black slaves owned by members of the LDS church until slavery was made illegal, and there are and were Black Mormons since the time of Brigham Young. Per the below link, there might have been more that came or stayed on in Utah, if the area had been more welcoming, but discrimination in housing, work opportunity, and arguably in the LDS faith had an impact. As best I can tell, Utah never had a particularly big Black population, and many many racist policies kept it that way. I suppose you could argue that that's natural, but I don't see it. Redlining Maps: https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining Utah and African Americans (1994) https://www.uen.org/utah_history_encyclopedia/a/African_Americans.shtml https://www.uen.org/utah_history_encyclopedia/a/African_Amer... 100 Year History of Racist Housing Policy: https://www.shareable.net/timeline-of-100-years-of-racist-housing-policy-that-created-a-separate-and-unequal-america/ https://www.shareable.net/timeline-of-100-years-of-racist-ho...

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

> Black people couldn't participate fully in the LDS church, as a matter of policy, until 1978 True, and deplorable. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28). It seems the LDS church was rather late in getting the memo. Still... that was 42 years ago. It seems a bit of a stretch to say that that's why there are so few blacks in Utah today. (And even pre-1978, you could live in Utah without being LDS.) > Combined with governmental policies like redlining of majority black neighborhoods, I think it's fair to say that the lack of diversity in Utah isn't the natural state of affairs Redlining is also deplorable. But did it happen in Utah? I ask because I'm not sure Utah has any majority-black neighborhoods. And even then, for there to be redlining, the blacks have to already be here. If they came here, they couldn't buy a home because of redlining? As opposed to anywhere else, where they... also couldn't buy a home because of redlining? Or is the claim that Utah had redlining later than everywhere else? I don't see the logic for your redlining claim to have any relevance to the question of why Utah is not diverse.

yellowapple 6y ago
> It seems a bit of a stretch to say that that's why there are so few blacks in Utah today. Does it? Because to me it doesn't seem like much of a stretch at all to suspect that being entirely unwelcoming to black people would discourage black people from moving there (and encourage black people already there to leave at the earliest opportunity).
lsiebert 6y ago
I'm not an expert on Utah or on racism, but I know that SLC and Ogden, both cities in Utah, had HOLC maps with redlining. There were Black people in Utah before the LDS church. There were Black slaves owned by members of the LDS church until slavery was made illegal, and there are and were Black Mormons since the time of Brigham Young. Per the below link, there might have been more that came or stayed on in Utah, if the area had been more welcoming, but discrimination in housing, work opportunity, and arguably in the LDS faith had an impact. As best I can tell, Utah never had a particularly big Black population, and many many racist policies kept it that way. I suppose you could argue that that's natural, but I don't see it. Redlining Maps: https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining Utah and African Americans (1994) https://www.uen.org/utah_history_encyclopedia/a/African_Americans.shtml https://www.uen.org/utah_history_encyclopedia/a/African_Amer... 100 Year History of Racist Housing Policy: https://www.shareable.net/timeline-of-100-years-of-racist-housing-policy-that-created-a-separate-and-unequal-america/ https://www.shareable.net/timeline-of-100-years-of-racist-ho...