9 ms·

Icelandair letting go its flight attendants and shifting their duties to pilots

85 points by onetimemanytime 6y ago

gbronner 6y ago
People Express used to do similar things
aj7 6y ago
What a nightmare. Icelandair was a well-run airline that was a pleasure to fly.
jacquesm 6y ago
Flight safety concerns will likely nix this. But regardless, that's a bad way to end a labor dispute in these times. But with Wow Air bankrupt there isn't all that much competition to and from that airport. Over half of all destinations reachable from Iceland are flown by Icelandair.
- noncoml 6y ago
  Will they even be allowed to operate in EU like this? https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/minimum-required-cabin-crew https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/minimum-required-... >when establishing the number of cabin crew needed for each aircraft and flight (...) by either applying the number established during the certification process or by a calculation of 1 cabin crew member per 50 installed passenger seats.
  - freemonster 6y ago
    Having extra pilots act as cabin crew should be ok with the numbers as long as they don't drop the count. The concern is are they qualified to act as flight attendants? When I read the article, it doesn't say the pilot and co-pilot would be cabin crew, it was additional pilots filling in. If so few people fly, there should be enough pilots. Not saying they want to do this or legal, but it would be possible.
ashtonkem 6y ago
I would actually be surprised if that’s legal. Flight attendants perform some critical safety functions, they’re not glorified wait staff that can be replaced on a whim.
- jbob2000 6y ago
  I don’t mean to be ignorant, but what are these critical safety functions? The closest thing to safety that I’ve seen is they give the speech at the beginning about oxygen masks and remind you to buckle up. Given that the inflight safety demonstration is on video now, what’s the critical safety role?
  - imsofuture 6y ago
    Literally flight attendants exist to help with the safety of passengers in any sort of abnormal situation. That they serve beverages is just kind of the thing they do when there's not a critical safety function.
  - rwallace 6y ago
    My safety worry wouldn't be the lack of flight attendants per se, it would be distracted pilots. The pilots have enough to keep track of already. The last thing we need is having planes start crashing because a pilot was distracted dealing with a passenger.
    - CydeWeys 6y ago
      You're misunderstanding the linked article. There will still be flight attendants, just now they'll be pilots. I.e. there will be two pilots solely in charge of flying the plane, and then additional pilots in the cabin doing the flight attendant duties.
  - jimktrains2 6y ago
    The critical role is if something goes wrong to be able to help the passengers be safe. E.g. non-normal landings and medical emergencies. Another less "critical" role, but still not something I want a pilot doing, is dealing with disgruntled passengers. They also ensure that rules are followed and that people, e.g. in an exit row, understand what they need to do. If pilots couldn't begin preflight until passengers are seated and buckled it would take forever to depart. Speaking of boarding, flight attendants also deal with seating and baggage issues. Again, it would delay departure.
lsllc 6y ago
Who's going to sit with the pilot when the co-pilot goes to the bathroom (and who's going to block the isle with the cart while that happens?). Seems like they're using COVID19 as an excuse to solve their labor dispute: Services "will continue to be at a minimum, as (they have been) since the impact of COVID-19 started," the airline said. Pilots need to be aviating, navigating and communicating, not worrying about what's going on in the cabin!
- ThrustVectoring 6y ago
  There will be a pilot, co-pilot, and additional pilot-rated staff performing cabin safety duties.
jcahill 6y ago
Is this an EFTA loophole? > It's also not apparent if such a setup is legal in the regions in which Icelandair flies, including the US and the European Union.
xenospn 6y ago
"In May 2019, 419,000 passengers flew on Icelandair. In May 2020, just 3,100 hopped aboard." I mean, yeah.
hindsightbias 6y ago
This article is confused. The cockpit crew will not be handing out drinks. Other pilot-rated employees will be acting as attendants. You can’t operate in the EU, US or Canada w/o someone attending in the back. You have to have so many attendants per passengers. Pilots are well qualified for any cabin duties. Many US pilots who have lost their rating or are going through a health issue that keeps them out of the cockpit serve as attendants to keep their benefits or wait to be medically reinstated. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-icelandair-pilots-cabin-crew-passengers-a9626041.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronav... “From 20 July pilots who are currently not required for flying duties will be assigned “responsibility for safety on board”.”
- ornxka 6y ago
  >The cockpit crew will not be handing out drinks. The mental image this gave me was amusing: >"Hey man, can you steer for a few minutes? I've gotta go push the drink cart." >"Sure thing dude, I'll get it next time."
  - koboll 6y ago
    Don't need two pilots. Just have one pilot slowly push the drink cart with one hand while the other hand pilots the plane with a game console controller plugged into a VR headset. Then the passengers can simply grab drinks as it rolls by. Multitasking!
    - lowdose 6y ago
      No need for a VR set when you are already living in the simulation just reroute some plugs and you can do multitasking with remote viewing.
    - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
      Why not add autopilot functionality to the drink cart?
      - 6y ago
dkdk8283 6y ago
I prefer beautiful women to hand out beverages and snacks on my flight; something that sadly appears to be a dying trend.
jb775 6y ago
> the airline said it planned to have its pilots temporarily assume flight attendants' roles Excuse me captain can you top off my orange soda and fetch me a bag of peanuts?....this isn't what their pilots signed up for, expect a Icelandair pilot strike next
- Swenrekcah 6y ago
  It will be pilots otherwise unemployed performing minimal cabin duties ('cause covid dictates minimal interaction) while collecting a pilot's salary. This isn't a cost cutting measure but a stopgap due to failed negotiations between the airline and flight attendants.
lemmonii 6y ago
This is already outdated. Just now the cabin-crew union and Icelandair signed a new contract. I couldn't find an article in english but in another article they say that all layoffs will be reversed. https://www.visir.is/g/20201992741d/flugfreyjur-og-icelandair-undirrita-nyjan-kjarasamning https://www.visir.is/g/20201992741d/flugfreyjur-og-icelandai...
- runarberg 6y ago
  Same news, but from the the state radio: https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/19/samningur-flugfreyja-og-icelandair-i-hofn https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/19/samningur-flugfreyja-og-... EDIT: And here is the news (in english from the state radio) about the controversial decision from the privately run Icelandair to lay of all its flight attendants because of the labor dispute: https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/17/icelandair-lays-off-all-cabin-crew-and-looks-elsewhere https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/17/icelandair-lays-off-all-...
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  What kind of deal did they get? Did they meet in the middle, or did the airline force them to sign a terrible deal?
  - abstractbeliefs 6y ago
    Doesn't look like the one they were hoping for: The bargaining committee of Flugfreyjufélag Íslands and Icelandair have signed a new wage agreement. The new agreement is expected to be valid until September 30, 2025. It is based on an agreement that was recently rejected in a vote.
codestic 6y ago
That’s a ballsy move that paid off for them. Want more money? Not gonna happen. Here’s your termination letter. Oh, now you want to negotiate? Ok let’s do it. Hahaha. Gotta hand it to Icelandicair on this one.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
LoSboccacc 6y ago
we gonna hear these decisions again in a 2022 mayday episode
dolmen 6y ago
That makes sense if there are almost no passengers in planes. And if they have too many idling pilots as many flights are not scheduled.
BrandoElFollito 6y ago
Stories like this one remind me how flying was diffrent when I was a kid in the 70-80's. It was better, except for the cigarettes smoke which was supposed to miracously dissapea between rows 15 and 16. And the price, it was way more expensive. Beside that: light to no security, real food, a sense of excitement. A flight was something a kud remembered for a long time (I still do, after 40 years). My teenage children, after 50 flights, treat this as an extended and cumbersome bus ride.

gbronner 6y ago

People Express used to do similar things

aj7 6y ago

What a nightmare. Icelandair was a well-run airline that was a pleasure to fly.

jacquesm 6y ago

Flight safety concerns will likely nix this. But regardless, that's a bad way to end a labor dispute in these times. But with Wow Air bankrupt there isn't all that much competition to and from that airport. Over half of all destinations reachable from Iceland are flown by Icelandair.

noncoml 6y ago
Will they even be allowed to operate in EU like this? https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/minimum-required-cabin-crew https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/minimum-required-... >when establishing the number of cabin crew needed for each aircraft and flight (...) by either applying the number established during the certification process or by a calculation of 1 cabin crew member per 50 installed passenger seats.
- freemonster 6y ago
  Having extra pilots act as cabin crew should be ok with the numbers as long as they don't drop the count. The concern is are they qualified to act as flight attendants? When I read the article, it doesn't say the pilot and co-pilot would be cabin crew, it was additional pilots filling in. If so few people fly, there should be enough pilots. Not saying they want to do this or legal, but it would be possible.

ashtonkem 6y ago

I would actually be surprised if that’s legal. Flight attendants perform some critical safety functions, they’re not glorified wait staff that can be replaced on a whim.

jbob2000 6y ago
I don’t mean to be ignorant, but what are these critical safety functions? The closest thing to safety that I’ve seen is they give the speech at the beginning about oxygen masks and remind you to buckle up. Given that the inflight safety demonstration is on video now, what’s the critical safety role?
- imsofuture 6y ago
  Literally flight attendants exist to help with the safety of passengers in any sort of abnormal situation. That they serve beverages is just kind of the thing they do when there's not a critical safety function.
- rwallace 6y ago
  My safety worry wouldn't be the lack of flight attendants per se, it would be distracted pilots. The pilots have enough to keep track of already. The last thing we need is having planes start crashing because a pilot was distracted dealing with a passenger.
  - CydeWeys 6y ago
    You're misunderstanding the linked article. There will still be flight attendants, just now they'll be pilots. I.e. there will be two pilots solely in charge of flying the plane, and then additional pilots in the cabin doing the flight attendant duties.
- jimktrains2 6y ago
  The critical role is if something goes wrong to be able to help the passengers be safe. E.g. non-normal landings and medical emergencies. Another less "critical" role, but still not something I want a pilot doing, is dealing with disgruntled passengers. They also ensure that rules are followed and that people, e.g. in an exit row, understand what they need to do. If pilots couldn't begin preflight until passengers are seated and buckled it would take forever to depart. Speaking of boarding, flight attendants also deal with seating and baggage issues. Again, it would delay departure.

lsllc 6y ago

Who's going to sit with the pilot when the co-pilot goes to the bathroom (and who's going to block the isle with the cart while that happens?). Seems like they're using COVID19 as an excuse to solve their labor dispute: Services "will continue to be at a minimum, as (they have been) since the impact of COVID-19 started," the airline said. Pilots need to be aviating, navigating and communicating, not worrying about what's going on in the cabin!

ThrustVectoring 6y ago
There will be a pilot, co-pilot, and additional pilot-rated staff performing cabin safety duties.

jcahill 6y ago

Is this an EFTA loophole? > It's also not apparent if such a setup is legal in the regions in which Icelandair flies, including the US and the European Union.

xenospn 6y ago

"In May 2019, 419,000 passengers flew on Icelandair. In May 2020, just 3,100 hopped aboard." I mean, yeah.

hindsightbias 6y ago

This article is confused. The cockpit crew will not be handing out drinks. Other pilot-rated employees will be acting as attendants. You can’t operate in the EU, US or Canada w/o someone attending in the back. You have to have so many attendants per passengers. Pilots are well qualified for any cabin duties. Many US pilots who have lost their rating or are going through a health issue that keeps them out of the cockpit serve as attendants to keep their benefits or wait to be medically reinstated. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-icelandair-pilots-cabin-crew-passengers-a9626041.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronav... “From 20 July pilots who are currently not required for flying duties will be assigned “responsibility for safety on board”.”

ornxka 6y ago
>The cockpit crew will not be handing out drinks. The mental image this gave me was amusing: >"Hey man, can you steer for a few minutes? I've gotta go push the drink cart." >"Sure thing dude, I'll get it next time."
- koboll 6y ago
  Don't need two pilots. Just have one pilot slowly push the drink cart with one hand while the other hand pilots the plane with a game console controller plugged into a VR headset. Then the passengers can simply grab drinks as it rolls by. Multitasking!
  - lowdose 6y ago
    No need for a VR set when you are already living in the simulation just reroute some plugs and you can do multitasking with remote viewing.
  - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
    Why not add autopilot functionality to the drink cart?
    - 6y ago

dkdk8283 6y ago

I prefer beautiful women to hand out beverages and snacks on my flight; something that sadly appears to be a dying trend.

jb775 6y ago

> the airline said it planned to have its pilots temporarily assume flight attendants' roles Excuse me captain can you top off my orange soda and fetch me a bag of peanuts?....this isn't what their pilots signed up for, expect a Icelandair pilot strike next

Swenrekcah 6y ago
It will be pilots otherwise unemployed performing minimal cabin duties ('cause covid dictates minimal interaction) while collecting a pilot's salary. This isn't a cost cutting measure but a stopgap due to failed negotiations between the airline and flight attendants.

lemmonii 6y ago

This is already outdated. Just now the cabin-crew union and Icelandair signed a new contract. I couldn't find an article in english but in another article they say that all layoffs will be reversed. https://www.visir.is/g/20201992741d/flugfreyjur-og-icelandair-undirrita-nyjan-kjarasamning https://www.visir.is/g/20201992741d/flugfreyjur-og-icelandai...

runarberg 6y ago
Same news, but from the the state radio: https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/19/samningur-flugfreyja-og-icelandair-i-hofn https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/19/samningur-flugfreyja-og-... EDIT: And here is the news (in english from the state radio) about the controversial decision from the privately run Icelandair to lay of all its flight attendants because of the labor dispute: https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/17/icelandair-lays-off-all-cabin-crew-and-looks-elsewhere https://www.ruv.is/frett/2020/07/17/icelandair-lays-off-all-...
smnrchrds 6y ago
What kind of deal did they get? Did they meet in the middle, or did the airline force them to sign a terrible deal?
- abstractbeliefs 6y ago
  Doesn't look like the one they were hoping for: The bargaining committee of Flugfreyjufélag Íslands and Icelandair have signed a new wage agreement. The new agreement is expected to be valid until September 30, 2025. It is based on an agreement that was recently rejected in a vote.

codestic 6y ago

That’s a ballsy move that paid off for them. Want more money? Not gonna happen. Here’s your termination letter. Oh, now you want to negotiate? Ok let’s do it. Hahaha. Gotta hand it to Icelandicair on this one.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

LoSboccacc 6y ago

we gonna hear these decisions again in a 2022 mayday episode

dolmen 6y ago

That makes sense if there are almost no passengers in planes. And if they have too many idling pilots as many flights are not scheduled.

BrandoElFollito 6y ago

Stories like this one remind me how flying was diffrent when I was a kid in the 70-80's. It was better, except for the cigarettes smoke which was supposed to miracously dissapea between rows 15 and 16. And the price, it was way more expensive. Beside that: light to no security, real food, a sense of excitement. A flight was something a kud remembered for a long time (I still do, after 40 years). My teenage children, after 50 flights, treat this as an extended and cumbersome bus ride.