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It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what

It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what you're watching regardless of source (DVD, over the air, streaming app, etc). They even detect commercials, and which language you're listening to. https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-guide-to-acr-tech-in-smart-tvs/ https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g...

dylan604 6y ago
How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. They continue to make money off of you long after the initial sale. I'm surprised they just don't give them away (except it would probably raise too many questions). Your digital cable boxes have been doing this for even longer.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  Yup. I bought a 75” 4K TV with HDR for $750 recently. I paid that much for my first 15” LCD computer monitor. If I connect it to the internet I know it’s spying on me.
- megablast 6y ago
  They aren't getting much back from selling the data. Maybe $20 off.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    And that is based on what data? BigCorps tend to not continue doing something if it's not going to bring them much return.
    - Fezzik 6y ago
      Somewhat tangential, but Facebook’s average revenue per user was less than $9 in 2019. I can’t imagine TV manufacturers can eek out nearly that much revenue from the data they collect. Especially considering that almost everyone is streaming or using cable and all of that data is going to Hulu/Netflix/Cable providers and then passed on to advertisers anyway.
      - dylan604 6y ago
        FB has 1.5B+ daily users. $9 * 1.5B = A LOT OF CASH. Is that per month, per year? Plus Insta, plus WhatsApp TV Manufactures may not sell 1B units (maybe they do), but it's still a large enough number that it will not be unnoticed in a balance sheet
        fdupress 6y ago
        In the case of Samsung and smart TVs, and to fully support the argument you are supporting, it is not sufficient that Samsung makes a lot of money. They need to make a lot more per user selling data than they would adding $20 to the price of that TV. But that $20 price difference would probably mean that less people buy Samsung, so the maths isn't going to be that straightforward.
- nl 6y ago
  > How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. Screens are actually that cheap. Take a look at the monitor size/resolution price curve (for non-gaming monitors) and you'll see TVs fit perfectly on it. Here's a random 55 inch LG panel available on Alibaba. $145 each for a minimum order of 15. That was just the first I found - I'm sure you can get cheaper (especially in bulk!) Things like high refresh rate, GSync etc add to the cost of the monitor. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/LG-full-color-FHD-module-LC550DUYSHA1_62588013706.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5b805365lAKpTo https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/LG-full-color-FHD-mod...
- superhuzza 6y ago
  >How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. TV prices have been falling for decades[1], long before manufacturers could truly benefit from the data provided by smart TVs. So other factors are probably much more important - such as cheaper materials, automated production, economies of scale etc. Also, ad revenue wouldn't explain why "stupid" computer monitor prices have also fallen greatly during the same time period. [1] https://u.osu.edu/zagorsky.1/2014/05/18/why-are-television-sets-showing-up-everywhere/ https://u.osu.edu/zagorsky.1/2014/05/18/why-are-television-s...
virtue3 6y ago
I worked for a company that used ACR to put interactive ads on your TV when the ad that it went with came on. I pressed the meta data company manager we were working with about how they could make such accurate predictions about who was viewing based off just zip code and the content and he replied with "you would be amazed at what people will tell you about themselves for 5$ off netflix". My productivity dropped and I had a hard time coming into work after that. (This was around the Snowden era). LG got busted shortly after for not actually stopping the screen grabbing once a second and uploading it to a server even if you turned the option off in the UK. Not surprised.
Mandatum 6y ago
Unfortunately piracy is often a good answer to this type of issue. If your smart TV is not connected to the internet, or you're not browsing on a licensed platform riddled with DRM and tracking agents, there's no chance of that data leaving your house.
- mirimir 6y ago
  That's my answer. I'll never own a "smart TV", just decent gaming graphics with a large monitor.
  - Exmoor 6y ago
    It's essentially impossible to buy a consumer TV that's not "smart" these days. There are commercial TV's/monitors, but those are both expensive and also typically not focused on image quality. Best solution is to "air gap" your TV by not connecting it your wifi or ethernet.
    - mirimir 6y ago
      Why do I need a TV? Arbitrarily large monitors are available for gaming.
      - speedgoose 6y ago
        TVs are much much more larger. But you don't need a TV obviously.
        mirimir 6y ago
        I live in a 42 m^2 apartment, so I really don't need that large a monitor :)
        speedgoose 6y ago
        I used to have a video-projector with a wide lens in a similar sized apartment. Great for movies and slow paced video-games.
mimimi31 6y ago
"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
- hatenberg 6y ago
  Clearly missed out on infrared ;)
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > except in darkness, With modern cameras even darkness is no guarantee.
jl6 6y ago
Please tell me there is a blacklist published somewhere that allows me to avoid ever purchasing a device which includes ACR?

dylan604 6y ago

How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. They continue to make money off of you long after the initial sale. I'm surprised they just don't give them away (except it would probably raise too many questions). Your digital cable boxes have been doing this for even longer.

godzillabrennus 6y ago
Yup. I bought a 75” 4K TV with HDR for $750 recently. I paid that much for my first 15” LCD computer monitor. If I connect it to the internet I know it’s spying on me.
megablast 6y ago
They aren't getting much back from selling the data. Maybe $20 off.
- dylan604 6y ago
  And that is based on what data? BigCorps tend to not continue doing something if it's not going to bring them much return.
  - Fezzik 6y ago
    Somewhat tangential, but Facebook’s average revenue per user was less than $9 in 2019. I can’t imagine TV manufacturers can eek out nearly that much revenue from the data they collect. Especially considering that almost everyone is streaming or using cable and all of that data is going to Hulu/Netflix/Cable providers and then passed on to advertisers anyway.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      FB has 1.5B+ daily users. $9 * 1.5B = A LOT OF CASH. Is that per month, per year? Plus Insta, plus WhatsApp TV Manufactures may not sell 1B units (maybe they do), but it's still a large enough number that it will not be unnoticed in a balance sheet
      - fdupress 6y ago
        In the case of Samsung and smart TVs, and to fully support the argument you are supporting, it is not sufficient that Samsung makes a lot of money. They need to make a lot more per user selling data than they would adding $20 to the price of that TV. But that $20 price difference would probably mean that less people buy Samsung, so the maths isn't going to be that straightforward.
nl 6y ago
> How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. Screens are actually that cheap. Take a look at the monitor size/resolution price curve (for non-gaming monitors) and you'll see TVs fit perfectly on it. Here's a random 55 inch LG panel available on Alibaba. $145 each for a minimum order of 15. That was just the first I found - I'm sure you can get cheaper (especially in bulk!) Things like high refresh rate, GSync etc add to the cost of the monitor. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/LG-full-color-FHD-module-LC550DUYSHA1_62588013706.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.5b805365lAKpTo https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/LG-full-color-FHD-mod...
superhuzza 6y ago
>How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. TV prices have been falling for decades[1], long before manufacturers could truly benefit from the data provided by smart TVs. So other factors are probably much more important - such as cheaper materials, automated production, economies of scale etc. Also, ad revenue wouldn't explain why "stupid" computer monitor prices have also fallen greatly during the same time period. [1] https://u.osu.edu/zagorsky.1/2014/05/18/why-are-television-sets-showing-up-everywhere/ https://u.osu.edu/zagorsky.1/2014/05/18/why-are-television-s...

virtue3 6y ago

I worked for a company that used ACR to put interactive ads on your TV when the ad that it went with came on. I pressed the meta data company manager we were working with about how they could make such accurate predictions about who was viewing based off just zip code and the content and he replied with "you would be amazed at what people will tell you about themselves for 5$ off netflix". My productivity dropped and I had a hard time coming into work after that. (This was around the Snowden era). LG got busted shortly after for not actually stopping the screen grabbing once a second and uploading it to a server even if you turned the option off in the UK. Not surprised.

Mandatum 6y ago

Unfortunately piracy is often a good answer to this type of issue. If your smart TV is not connected to the internet, or you're not browsing on a licensed platform riddled with DRM and tracking agents, there's no chance of that data leaving your house.

mirimir 6y ago
That's my answer. I'll never own a "smart TV", just decent gaming graphics with a large monitor.
- Exmoor 6y ago
  It's essentially impossible to buy a consumer TV that's not "smart" these days. There are commercial TV's/monitors, but those are both expensive and also typically not focused on image quality. Best solution is to "air gap" your TV by not connecting it your wifi or ethernet.
  - mirimir 6y ago
    Why do I need a TV? Arbitrarily large monitors are available for gaming.
    - speedgoose 6y ago
      TVs are much much more larger. But you don't need a TV obviously.
      - mirimir 6y ago
        I live in a 42 m^2 apartment, so I really don't need that large a monitor :)
        speedgoose 6y ago
        I used to have a video-projector with a wide lens in a similar sized apartment. Great for movies and slow paced video-games.

mimimi31 6y ago

"The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."

hatenberg 6y ago
Clearly missed out on infrared ;)
kwhitefoot 6y ago
> except in darkness, With modern cameras even darkness is no guarantee.

jl6 6y ago

Please tell me there is a blacklist published somewhere that allows me to avoid ever purchasing a device which includes ACR?