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Two friends are lost in the woods. One is experienced in fieldcraft, the other is not. The experienced friend consults a map, a compass, the position of the sun

Two friends are lost in the woods. One is experienced in fieldcraft, the other is not. The experienced friend consults a map, a compass, the position of the sun and some known landmarks and says, "we must go this way." The inexperienced friend complies and walks for hours with the experienced friend. Suddenly the experienced friend stops and takes their map and compass. "No reason to worry just double checking everything, we are getting closer." But the inexperienced friend sees no sign of progress. This cycle repeats several times over. They walk for hours. Stop to check. No sign of progress. Reassurances. Again and again. Finally the inexperienced friend says, "I recognize this place and I think I know the way back. Let's go this way." The experienced friend knows this is the wrong way and insists they go a different direction. After half an hour of arguing they part ways. In a few more hours the experienced friend finds their way out of the forest while the inexperienced friend remains hopelessly lost. The experienced friend finds a ranger station. A ranger there asks, "were you alone?" The experienced replies that they were not alone but it does not matter as their companion did not want to be saved.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
> The experienced friend knows this is the wrong way and insists they go a different direction. After half an hour of arguing they part ways. In the argument, the experienced outdoorsman explains how the map works, how the sun rises and sets as it does everyday - he explains the compass always points north, and the map is from the national park service. The other says "no, I'm right, because I feel right. In my heart, I know this is the right way, I KNOW I've seen this tree before." The outdoorsman was exasperated. He had spent time arguing with a man who knows nothing of being outdoors, insisting that he was correct. When he went back to the ranger and a search party formed, it occurred to him that, no matter how much logic and reason he assaulted his former friend with, nothing would shake his faith and the argument would have gone on until they had both died, or he had run off. They eventually found the other man - hours later. The other man was rescued and immediately saw how wrong he was, but it took something else to show that to him - true fear and failure.
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  The point of his analogy was not to create sympathy for the inexperienced friend but rather to demonstrate one can both go wildly off course and simultaneously want to be saved. In fact to so desperately want to be saved that it becomes the very thing which puts one off course.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    > The point of his analogy was not to create sympathy for the inexperienced friend but rather to demonstrate one can both go wildly off course and simultaneously want to be saved. In fact to so desperately want to be saved that it becomes the very thing which puts one off course. The point of "not wanting to be saved" is, no matter how much you try, you can not save them, and you must move on with your life. Perhaps they will learn, perhaps not. Or simply, stop wasting your time, when you know you can't bring the change they need.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago

> The experienced friend knows this is the wrong way and insists they go a different direction. After half an hour of arguing they part ways. In the argument, the experienced outdoorsman explains how the map works, how the sun rises and sets as it does everyday - he explains the compass always points north, and the map is from the national park service. The other says "no, I'm right, because I feel right. In my heart, I know this is the right way, I KNOW I've seen this tree before." The outdoorsman was exasperated. He had spent time arguing with a man who knows nothing of being outdoors, insisting that he was correct. When he went back to the ranger and a search party formed, it occurred to him that, no matter how much logic and reason he assaulted his former friend with, nothing would shake his faith and the argument would have gone on until they had both died, or he had run off. They eventually found the other man - hours later. The other man was rescued and immediately saw how wrong he was, but it took something else to show that to him - true fear and failure.

DubiousPusher 6y ago
The point of his analogy was not to create sympathy for the inexperienced friend but rather to demonstrate one can both go wildly off course and simultaneously want to be saved. In fact to so desperately want to be saved that it becomes the very thing which puts one off course.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  > The point of his analogy was not to create sympathy for the inexperienced friend but rather to demonstrate one can both go wildly off course and simultaneously want to be saved. In fact to so desperately want to be saved that it becomes the very thing which puts one off course. The point of "not wanting to be saved" is, no matter how much you try, you can not save them, and you must move on with your life. Perhaps they will learn, perhaps not. Or simply, stop wasting your time, when you know you can't bring the change they need.