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“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

by cwhiz 6y ago

Jgrubb 6y ago
Burning cars, so what? Parisians riot like this about every 18 months or so and the state doesn't call out the secret police and somehow the country still exists.
- xhkkffbf 6y ago
  Could you be so kind as to self-dox the location of your car so the protestors will know who is totally okay with having his/her/etc car burned?
- beervirus 6y ago
  Maybe the fact that there are no consequences has something to do with the fact that it keeps happening every 18 months?
  - dwaltrip 6y ago
    You are in support of secret police extrajudicially detaining citizens? Over a burnt car? Why can’t law enforcement do this by the book?
    - beervirus 6y ago
      The initial detention of suspected criminals usually is “extrajudicial” in that it’s done by police without a warrant from a judge. These are federal officers instead of the local police (who should be handling this, except that they’re being hamstrung by local officials’ pandering to the mob). But that doesn’t make them “secret police.”
gshulegaard 6y ago
Ok hold up. I actually live in Portland. There is definitely underplaying of the criminal activity going on by the media, but these are NOT riots. Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests with a minority who are engaging in criminal activity. And this is coming from someone whose building's lower windows are boarded up and has seen a rash of attempted break-ins to facilities like our mail room. But regardless of the gray area of how local Police are trying to walk the line between shutting down criminal activity and respecting the majority's freedom of assembly, it is NOT ok for Federal Agents to be acting in any way besides securing Federal properties. Border Patrol is not local law enforcement. Federal Protective Service is not local law enforcement. Neither should have authority to do anything related to local law enforcement and they most definitely should not be doing anything off of Federal property. It's not their job to police Portland and no one wants them policing Portland; no matter what your views on the current state of unrest that much should be true. So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best.
- asguy 6y ago
  > So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best. I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted. This [0] happened last night. These videos have become so common over the past month, they're turning into the norm. I was woken up at 1:30 am this morning listening to PPB giving rioters a 5 minute warning to vacate before they start applying force. It's out of hand. I'm not surprised at all that the Feds have come in to defend Federal property and restore order. [0] - https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334 https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334
  - gshulegaard 6y ago
chance_state 6y ago
Any thoughts on the secret police snatching Americans off the streets and disappearing them? Or mostly just mad about rioting?
- cwhiz 6y ago
  Read the article and dial back the absurd hyperbole.
  - alexose 6y ago
    I wouldn't call it hyperbole. Men in fatigues, who decline to identify themselves as law enforcement, are grabbing protesters off the streets and putting them in unmarked minivans. There are videos of this. From the article: > On July 12 a peaceful protester was struck in the head with an “impact weapon” and sustained severe injuries, according to the AG’s office. On Thursday, it says, “an unmarked minivan with undercover federal agents wearing generic green military fatigues” forcibly detained a second protester, who was later released.
    - kyleee 6y ago
      "decline to identify themselves as law enforcement" while wearing agency patches, and a patch that reads "police"?
      - ciarannolan 6y ago
        Can you point to anything that says they're identifying which agency they're with via "agency patches"? That's not mentioned in the article. Also, having "police" on their uniforms is meaningless. If you want to know where they disappeared someone to, are you going to look up "police" in the phone book and give them a call? Give me a break.
        kyleee 6y ago
        i was talking more about the shoulder patches, but the video is too low res to make out the details of the patches
alexose 6y ago
These are absolutely not violent riots. They are organized protests with specific demands, and are generally supported by the people who live here. If we're being honest, then we should recall the way CHOP in Seattle was characterized by the right as some sort of Mad Max murder hellscape, and how that bore virtually no resemblance to what was happening. We should consider how this movement may be similarly misrepresented by conservative voices to present a vision of the left-leaning Pacific Northwest as somehow "out of control". But regardless of the protests, we have militarized federal agents patrolling the streets of a city where they are not welcomed by city or state leadership. It should scare the shit out of everybody. I stand with Mayor Wheeler and city leadership in wishing they would leave.

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

by cwhiz 6y ago

“Protests.” Let’s be honest on both sides. What’s going on in Portland is violent rioting. “Demonstrators” don’t burn cars in the street, but rioters do.

Jgrubb 6y ago

Burning cars, so what? Parisians riot like this about every 18 months or so and the state doesn't call out the secret police and somehow the country still exists.

xhkkffbf 6y ago
Could you be so kind as to self-dox the location of your car so the protestors will know who is totally okay with having his/her/etc car burned?
beervirus 6y ago
Maybe the fact that there are no consequences has something to do with the fact that it keeps happening every 18 months?
- dwaltrip 6y ago
  You are in support of secret police extrajudicially detaining citizens? Over a burnt car? Why can’t law enforcement do this by the book?
  - beervirus 6y ago
    The initial detention of suspected criminals usually is “extrajudicial” in that it’s done by police without a warrant from a judge. These are federal officers instead of the local police (who should be handling this, except that they’re being hamstrung by local officials’ pandering to the mob). But that doesn’t make them “secret police.”

gshulegaard 6y ago

Ok hold up. I actually live in Portland. There is definitely underplaying of the criminal activity going on by the media, but these are NOT riots. Now I am not sympathetic to those who claim that Police aren't justified in declaring many of these unlawful gatherings, but I am also not sympathetic to those calling it riots. What is actually happening from my local perspective is that there are mostly peaceful protests with a minority who are engaging in criminal activity. And this is coming from someone whose building's lower windows are boarded up and has seen a rash of attempted break-ins to facilities like our mail room. But regardless of the gray area of how local Police are trying to walk the line between shutting down criminal activity and respecting the majority's freedom of assembly, it is NOT ok for Federal Agents to be acting in any way besides securing Federal properties. Border Patrol is not local law enforcement. Federal Protective Service is not local law enforcement. Neither should have authority to do anything related to local law enforcement and they most definitely should not be doing anything off of Federal property. It's not their job to police Portland and no one wants them policing Portland; no matter what your views on the current state of unrest that much should be true. So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best.

asguy 6y ago
> So let me be honest, these aren't riots. Take it from a local...but also note that this local is not a participant so my perspective is from an arm's length at best. I'm a local, that lives within a 5 block radius of where this has been going on for weeks. I'd call them riots. I've seen with my own eyes, both sides shooting munitions at each other. Property is being destroyed. People are being assaulted. This [0] happened last night. These videos have become so common over the past month, they're turning into the norm. I was woken up at 1:30 am this morning listening to PPB giving rioters a 5 minute warning to vacate before they start applying force. It's out of hand. I'm not surprised at all that the Feds have come in to defend Federal property and restore order. [0] - https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334 https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1284384833653731334
- gshulegaard 6y ago

chance_state 6y ago

Any thoughts on the secret police snatching Americans off the streets and disappearing them? Or mostly just mad about rioting?

cwhiz 6y ago
Read the article and dial back the absurd hyperbole.
- alexose 6y ago
  I wouldn't call it hyperbole. Men in fatigues, who decline to identify themselves as law enforcement, are grabbing protesters off the streets and putting them in unmarked minivans. There are videos of this. From the article: > On July 12 a peaceful protester was struck in the head with an “impact weapon” and sustained severe injuries, according to the AG’s office. On Thursday, it says, “an unmarked minivan with undercover federal agents wearing generic green military fatigues” forcibly detained a second protester, who was later released.
  - kyleee 6y ago
    "decline to identify themselves as law enforcement" while wearing agency patches, and a patch that reads "police"?
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      Can you point to anything that says they're identifying which agency they're with via "agency patches"? That's not mentioned in the article. Also, having "police" on their uniforms is meaningless. If you want to know where they disappeared someone to, are you going to look up "police" in the phone book and give them a call? Give me a break.
      - kyleee 6y ago
        i was talking more about the shoulder patches, but the video is too low res to make out the details of the patches

alexose 6y ago

These are absolutely not violent riots. They are organized protests with specific demands, and are generally supported by the people who live here. If we're being honest, then we should recall the way CHOP in Seattle was characterized by the right as some sort of Mad Max murder hellscape, and how that bore virtually no resemblance to what was happening. We should consider how this movement may be similarly misrepresented by conservative voices to present a vision of the left-leaning Pacific Northwest as somehow "out of control". But regardless of the protests, we have militarized federal agents patrolling the streets of a city where they are not welcomed by city or state leadership. It should scare the shit out of everybody. I stand with Mayor Wheeler and city leadership in wishing they would leave.