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I've seen stuff like this a number of times. Someone gets their opinions horribly warped by well-crafted YouTube videos and graduates to spending a lot of time

I've seen stuff like this a number of times. Someone gets their opinions horribly warped by well-crafted YouTube videos and graduates to spending a lot of time with like-minded peers on Facebook groups, subreddits or discord, reinforcing those beliefs. I used to watch a talented gamer on twitch who goes on rants about how covid is a liberal scam, constantly advocates an all-meat diet ("there's no proof vegetables are healthy"), and shares YouTube videos on stuff like that. Trying to tell him otherwise only reinforces his beliefs, and he'll parrot talking points from videos. Completely soured me on his content and it's just really sad to see. When someone lacks the scientific training or education to know whether something is a conspiracy theory, they can really get pulled in by charismatic YouTube personalities espousing nonsense. Social media is really poisoning some peoples' minds.

fossuser 6y ago
It’s scary how vulnerable everyone is to this kind of thing. It makes me wonder what would happen if I watched YouTube videos every day that were misleading but well produced. Would I eventually end up the same way? How damaging is just repeated exposure and reinforcement to this kind of stuff? Is everyone vulnerable? Even being scientifically minded and trying to be a good rational thinker, the way otherwise intelligent people are corrupted scares me. It makes me extra cautious with what information I choose to expose myself to. I do take some comfort that I was able to throw religion away even while growing up surrounded by it as a child. I hope that means there’s a way to be more resilient to misinformation.
- alfonsodev 6y ago
  > Would I eventually end up the same way? In theory no, if you have developed critical thinking. I wonder if critical thinking works like a muscle that we have to train. I personally check opposite opinions on youtube, but it's scary how youtube algorithm wants to brainwash me with recommendations on any direction I take, I use the option of "not interested" a lot, to clean up recommendations. That and the evident radical polarization, scares me.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Theory and practice are often very different things. It's not hard at all to find intelligent, educated people, skilled in critical thinking, who believe very wacky ideas, because those ideas strike some emotional chord with them, which leads them to simply not see contradictory evidence.
  - ip26 6y ago
    The weakness with critical thinking is the old adage- the effort required to refute (or in this case question) bullshit is an order of magnitude greater than the effort required to create it. Basically, a tidal wave of bullshit overwhelms your ability to think critically about what you are hearing.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  > the way otherwise intelligent people are corrupted scares me. This is because of appeals to emotions. Our intelligence emerged from the animal - which we still are. It isn't a question of intelligence. Intelligence can be easily manipulated if you manipulate emotions, which is what most content does. Look at how easily marketing works - these things work on intelligent and unintelligent people. The problem isn't critical thinking - that is why intelligent people argue without any progress against these people. It isn't about intelligence. It's about emotion, animal desire, and manipulation. The way to not fall into the trap is to be aware.
- Debugreality 6y ago
  Take a look into Chinese and Uighurs and Tabetains. Look into Scientology and other cults. Look into ISIS and radicalisation. Brainwashing is definitely a thing that works and a lot of energy is put into making it happen. It is indeed scary.
cko 6y ago
This is sort of off topic, but I wonder about the validity of the "carnivore diet". People will talk about Inuits and ketogenic diet and such. I eat very little meat myself, due to health beliefs, but things like food beliefs are very difficult to scientifically defend. I know of all these "plant protein" studies and the China Study but finding cause and effect with something like diet is near impossible. Upon reflection I have the tendency to want to be right and to feel superior because of some esoteric knowledge.
- codr7 6y ago
  That puts you in pretty good company, including the parent post. Could be worse, at least you're self aware enough to see it. The only alternative that makes any sense at all is use your brain to lay your own puzzle. That may well put you in a position where you disagree with respected authorities/public opinion, but the alternative is blind faith which never ends well.
- didibus 6y ago
  There's a very common form of reasoning that humans tend to do. I'll call it reductionism. You can also call it abstraction, or simplification. This is our drive to find a one size fit all solution, a clever trick, something really easy and simple that consistently works. We all have this tendency, it manifests itself due to the limits of our own intelligence. As humans, we're not intelligent enough to understand, reason, and keep track of complicated things. Understanding the limits of your understanding and intelligence is really hard, and in my opinion, that's the true sign of knowledge. It is very rare to find someone knowledgeable enough to have a good grasp on those limits. Diet is not something we are smart enough to understand. Most people will not understand the complexities related to dieting and understanding it. That's why you'll have people parroting simple solutions grounded in beliefs only. It's too complicated to explain why it works, and too complicated to experiment with. So we can neither understand the principles of diet, nor can we try things and see if they work or not. This is the current state of dieting. Like I said, all complicated things we try to find simple solutions that consistently works. So what can be more simple than say... limiting ourself to a particular food group? Try cutting out all meats. Try only eating meats, maybe cut out all sugar? Maybe eat only natural fats? Or don't eat any fat? Etc. And the sad truth is, the limits to our intelligence is why people will believe in all kind of stupid things. Until someone actually figures it out, the folk tales will keep coming and the battle of beliefs and idiocy will rage on. What smart people generally do when faced with limits such as those, is they turn to math and computers to help us reason about things that are out of reach of our own abilities. And until clear breakthrough are made, they take a statistical approach, where you do what at any given point seems to be the most likely model, knowing that it could be completely wrong still, but that's the best you can do to win the odds.
dependenttypes 6y ago
This kind of thinking exists everywhere really, from politics (in both sides) to software. It is not limited only to medicine.

fossuser 6y ago

It’s scary how vulnerable everyone is to this kind of thing. It makes me wonder what would happen if I watched YouTube videos every day that were misleading but well produced. Would I eventually end up the same way? How damaging is just repeated exposure and reinforcement to this kind of stuff? Is everyone vulnerable? Even being scientifically minded and trying to be a good rational thinker, the way otherwise intelligent people are corrupted scares me. It makes me extra cautious with what information I choose to expose myself to. I do take some comfort that I was able to throw religion away even while growing up surrounded by it as a child. I hope that means there’s a way to be more resilient to misinformation.

alfonsodev 6y ago
> Would I eventually end up the same way? In theory no, if you have developed critical thinking. I wonder if critical thinking works like a muscle that we have to train. I personally check opposite opinions on youtube, but it's scary how youtube algorithm wants to brainwash me with recommendations on any direction I take, I use the option of "not interested" a lot, to clean up recommendations. That and the evident radical polarization, scares me.
- mcguire 6y ago
  Theory and practice are often very different things. It's not hard at all to find intelligent, educated people, skilled in critical thinking, who believe very wacky ideas, because those ideas strike some emotional chord with them, which leads them to simply not see contradictory evidence.
- ip26 6y ago
  The weakness with critical thinking is the old adage- the effort required to refute (or in this case question) bullshit is an order of magnitude greater than the effort required to create it. Basically, a tidal wave of bullshit overwhelms your ability to think critically about what you are hearing.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
> the way otherwise intelligent people are corrupted scares me. This is because of appeals to emotions. Our intelligence emerged from the animal - which we still are. It isn't a question of intelligence. Intelligence can be easily manipulated if you manipulate emotions, which is what most content does. Look at how easily marketing works - these things work on intelligent and unintelligent people. The problem isn't critical thinking - that is why intelligent people argue without any progress against these people. It isn't about intelligence. It's about emotion, animal desire, and manipulation. The way to not fall into the trap is to be aware.
Debugreality 6y ago
Take a look into Chinese and Uighurs and Tabetains. Look into Scientology and other cults. Look into ISIS and radicalisation. Brainwashing is definitely a thing that works and a lot of energy is put into making it happen. It is indeed scary.

cko 6y ago

This is sort of off topic, but I wonder about the validity of the "carnivore diet". People will talk about Inuits and ketogenic diet and such. I eat very little meat myself, due to health beliefs, but things like food beliefs are very difficult to scientifically defend. I know of all these "plant protein" studies and the China Study but finding cause and effect with something like diet is near impossible. Upon reflection I have the tendency to want to be right and to feel superior because of some esoteric knowledge.

codr7 6y ago
That puts you in pretty good company, including the parent post. Could be worse, at least you're self aware enough to see it. The only alternative that makes any sense at all is use your brain to lay your own puzzle. That may well put you in a position where you disagree with respected authorities/public opinion, but the alternative is blind faith which never ends well.
didibus 6y ago
There's a very common form of reasoning that humans tend to do. I'll call it reductionism. You can also call it abstraction, or simplification. This is our drive to find a one size fit all solution, a clever trick, something really easy and simple that consistently works. We all have this tendency, it manifests itself due to the limits of our own intelligence. As humans, we're not intelligent enough to understand, reason, and keep track of complicated things. Understanding the limits of your understanding and intelligence is really hard, and in my opinion, that's the true sign of knowledge. It is very rare to find someone knowledgeable enough to have a good grasp on those limits. Diet is not something we are smart enough to understand. Most people will not understand the complexities related to dieting and understanding it. That's why you'll have people parroting simple solutions grounded in beliefs only. It's too complicated to explain why it works, and too complicated to experiment with. So we can neither understand the principles of diet, nor can we try things and see if they work or not. This is the current state of dieting. Like I said, all complicated things we try to find simple solutions that consistently works. So what can be more simple than say... limiting ourself to a particular food group? Try cutting out all meats. Try only eating meats, maybe cut out all sugar? Maybe eat only natural fats? Or don't eat any fat? Etc. And the sad truth is, the limits to our intelligence is why people will believe in all kind of stupid things. Until someone actually figures it out, the folk tales will keep coming and the battle of beliefs and idiocy will rage on. What smart people generally do when faced with limits such as those, is they turn to math and computers to help us reason about things that are out of reach of our own abilities. And until clear breakthrough are made, they take a statistical approach, where you do what at any given point seems to be the most likely model, knowing that it could be completely wrong still, but that's the best you can do to win the odds.

dependenttypes 6y ago

This kind of thinking exists everywhere really, from politics (in both sides) to software. It is not limited only to medicine.