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The dismissiveness in this thread is unreal. From the comments you'd think the article only had one sentence insulting the Sanctity of Cargo Pants. If you happi

The dismissiveness in this thread is unreal. From the comments you'd think the article only had one sentence insulting the Sanctity of Cargo Pants. If you happily wear baggy jeans or cargo pants, these are not for you and you don't have the problem they solve. It's an elegant solution to wear slim fitted pants without awful hip pocket bulges. Cargo pants are not the solution here, as they are huge and baggy and the pockets flop around with anything in them. I'd love to try these.

msla 6y ago
> awful hip pocket bulges Who says they're awful? Why do they say that? We must be informed and skeptical consumers.
- m0xte 6y ago
  I rather like the hammer pants look myself.
  - Eric_WVGG 6y ago
    Jodhpurs have to make a comeback sooner or later
    - m0xte 6y ago
      Bring it. Andre 3000 here I come :)
- fanimalmanimal 6y ago
  Obviously this is a personal preference. For example. I think they’re awful. I don’t think these pants are the solution though. I do appreciate the effort.
- groby_b 6y ago
  Can we have opinions on our clothes without having to give every random person on the Internet a full justification? Why yes, yes we can. But, OK, let's answer it. The first answer is right in the fine article: Hip pockets lead to bad posture when sitting. They cause back pain. The second answer is that if you dress for aesthetic instead of functional reasons, one of the very first concerns is silhouette. And if you care about that, you often care about the torso first, lines second, limbs third. (Note: Since it's an aesthetic judgment, it depends on your preferences) Hip pockets ruin the look of the torso and lines from any angle except a pure frontal view. Worse, they ruin it for tight and loose fitting clothes (because for loose fit, hip pockets with anything of significant weight hangs awkwardly) This pocket design addresses the first issue completely, and the second issue somewhat. (You'll still notice a change in the line especially on tight fit, but it's less noticeable because it's not affecting torso, and it's not at the end of limbs - which get more attention than the middle) Maybe our list of maximes to follow should include "we must assume that people have a reason for what they do, and question somebody else's aesthetical judgment followed by an accusation that they're uninformed or unquestioning is not the best conversational gambit".
  - bscphil 6y ago
    > The second answer is that if you dress for aesthetic instead of functional reasons, one of the very first concerns is silhouette. See, I think you've missed what everyone in this thread is trying to get at. The defense of cargo pants is based on a pretty simple dialectic: · Who determines what is fashionable or "aesthetic"? Mostly, the people who design, sell, and advertise clothes. And also, people who directly profit off of being fashionable. · What metrics do they use to decide what they're going to call fashionable? Mostly, whatever will allow them to change styles from year to year and sell as many products as possible and maintain their position at the top of the fashion world. · Is it in our interests to buy into this system of fashion? No! In fact this dialectic has shown that fashion is basically bullshit, and that it's not just morally neutral but good to resist! To try to come up with our own fashions based on what appeals to us personally or simply wearing whatever has the most utility. For the record, I don't necessarily agree with this argument (I lean towards fashion-neutral), but I think this pattern of thinking is extremely common in hacker culture. While I'm cynical about how fashion is created, I don't wear cargo pants either, but that's because I find them much less comfortable than a straight (not slim) cut pair of jeans.
    - dan-robertson 6y ago
      I really struggle to believe that there’s some secret cabal of garment manufacturers conspiring to decide what modifications of their clothes will be desirable in the next season. One reason is that the industry is competitive and mostly full of low margins. If you collude with (some of) your competitors to sell the same thing then your market becomes both smaller and more competitive. Another is that fashion changes don’t necessarily benefit the companies who were previously doing well. I doubt that most of the jeans manufacturers would have wanted leggings to have become so popular, for example.
      - vict00ms 6y ago
        "Determine" isn't synonymous with "dictate". No cabalistic intrigue required.
    - 6y ago
ebg13 6y ago
Absolutely. At first I was intensely disappointed by the post ("why so wordy?", "why no pictures?"), but then I got to the design part and said "holy shit I want this". If people are happy with their cargo pants, no worries . It doesn't conform to a lot of current fashion aesthetic, but if that doesn't hit a person's radar, then cool, great. But a lot of people in the thread here are feeling attacked because someone doesn't like to wear the pants they like to wear. Fashion is aesthetic and therefore subjective, and it changes over time. At one point cargo pants might have even been "cool". I don't remember them ever being "office" though.
- flanbiscuit 6y ago
  I also really want these! I wear slim-to-skinny jeans and my phone eventually stretches the jean fabric above the pocket and you can see a white outline of my phone. As manufacturers kept increasing mobile screen sizes I'd have to make sure my phone could actually fit in my pocket when buying pants as not every brand consistently use the same pocket depth. Last time I wore cargo pants (probably the late 90s) I remember everything just annoyingly swing around as I walked.
  - andrepd 6y ago
    That sounds like a problem with the obnoxiously large phones as well :p
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Sadly the large phone thing seems here to stay, and it’s driving out small phone options :(
      - flanbiscuit 6y ago
        I get Pixel phones to get stock Android and reliable updates and the smallest I can get are ~6 inch phones. If a 5 inch Pixel was released I'd buy it in a heartbeat
maire 6y ago
For women the problem is worse since we are too curvy to use the exact location of pockets even when clothes are baggy. I find the solution interesting even for women. I solved the same problem by putting the pockets horizontally at the waist. I will try moving the pocket down to the upper leg.
- samstave 6y ago
  I suggest, as I stated in my other post, looking at the LuLuLemon pockets - specifically, having the pocket be a webbing/spandex material which cinches the contents of the pocket to the body such that it doesnt flop about and also secures the contents into the pocket. I like the horizontal, but maybe a 15 degree angle would be best, however, do the horiz pockets get in the way when you sit?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - maire 6y ago
    The pockets don't get in the way when I sit because the pocket is just below the waist. I started with the Silhouette 3 piece yoga pattern (which has a side panel) and made the pocket horizontal. It seems to me you can take an off-the-rack pair of pants and make the same modification.
- telesilla 6y ago
  Further, we are all curvy in different ways. I couldn't wear either of the trousers he made, without the fabric bunching. Other women might fit one or the other, or none. I like my pockets in the back, for example, but I need zips so things don't fall out and maybe a way of securing them so things don't get stolen and well it's all too hard so I just carry a purse unless it's running pants and I just need to slot my house key in there.. I hope for the return for Zozosuit, personally. I didn't get a chance to buy anything before they shut down but I enjoyed the measurement process and was hopeful for a good pair of jeans. https://qz.com/quartzy/1539036/the-zozosuit-has-been-an-expensive-mistake-for-japans-zozo-inc/ https://qz.com/quartzy/1539036/the-zozosuit-has-been-an-expe...
hristov 6y ago
Guess what, people do not like being insulted. If you are going to say to a large number of people that their clothes and by extension them "look bad" you are going to get a lot of pissed off responses. It is completely healthy and miles better than the alternative of internalizing it, believing you look bad feeling embarrassment, humiliation, guilt, etc. By the way this is the way the fashion industry has operated for a long time and people are rightfully sick of it. The author would have done much better to avoid making general statements. He could have said something like "i really do not like the way pockets look on my pants. I like to wear tight pants and large pockets really ruin that look."
- nvrspyx 6y ago
  Where did the author insult cargo pants users? This is all I saw mentioning cargo pants in the article. > Appendix: Sam, have you simply invented cargo pants? > No. Cargo pants solve different problems for different people. > If cargo pants are appropriate for your daily life, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa. Cargo pants aren’t office-wear; these dress pants aren’t combat-wear. EDIT: it seems like the author edited the article. Never mind.
  - yencabulator 6y ago
    > Cargo pants aren’t office-wear That sounds like an awfully pretentious office, that I personally would never agree to work in.
    - dleslie 6y ago
      I'm currently wearing cargo _shorts_; I bet I wouldn't be allowed past the foyer. ;)
ChuckMcM 6y ago
Interestingly I have a pair of pants (these: https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the-fly-relaxed-fit-pants-46202.html https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the-fly..., see pocket detail here: https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-dtc-master-catalog/default/dwf9cf92ba/images/large/46202_alt_03.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demand...) They implement this pocket strategy and work well for me. The author would likely be interested to know that this topic was covered in detail as an engineering exercise in NASA flight suits. More functional pockets for people strapped into a vehicle. One of the more interesting innovations was a pocket on the top of the thigh for holding flight checklists or maps. It had a clear cover so that what was inside the pocket could be viewed without taking it out. A phone pocket like that would be pretty cool (and way nerdy but hey, if the pocket fits ... :-))
- metaphor 6y ago
  > They implement this pocket strategy and work well for me. Superficially, perhaps. But the zipper inclusion makes your example the "strategic" difference that properly considers the importance of what might be stored in such a pocket. IMHO, the author's approach is overshadowed by cost cutting, where the narrative serves to distract the reader with discourse on "method" that doesn't quite align with the original problem description.
- tgb 6y ago
  I recall clicking a Duluth Trading link from a thread not so unlike this on HN years ago and then being followed by ads for their jeans across the internet for at least a year. Of course, I remember that just after clicking your link.
  - eli 6y ago
    Probably google ads. You can click the little x in the corner and make that particular ad go away.
    - skinkestek 6y ago
msla 6y ago
The dismissiveness comes from dismissing cargo pants for being associated with manual labor.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Here, again, is what was actually said: Cargo pants solve different problems for different people. If cargo pants are appropriate for your daily life, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa. Cargo pants aren’t office-wear; these dress pants aren’t combat-wear. This is not dismissing cargo pants or the wearing thereof. This is dismissing the failure to grasp that details matter a lot in fashion, and the detailing in cargo pants renders them inappropriate to certain contexts. It even directly acknowledges that this goes both ways, and that the detailing on these pants would render them inappropriate to the contexts that cargo pants are designed for (if not limited to).
  - howenterprisey 6y ago
    The article has been edited. A few scrolls below, the article was quoted[0] as saying: >No. Cargo pants are fashion-as-pretend-occupation — when not at work, wear a fancy chronometer to suggest you’re a pilot or a diver, or camo to suggest you’re in the military. Cargo pants are a paratrooper costume. Cargo shorts have giant external pouches so teenagers in the 90’s, trapped in school, could say (sartorially) “I go out into the world and do adventurous things!” even though the things they stored in those pouches were doritos and portable cd players. >I am discussing clothing as it might be worn by people while doing their real jobs, not their pretend ones. If cargo pants are appropriate for your real job, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa." [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23881595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23881595
harimau777 6y ago
I think it may be more a reaction to the dismissiveness of the article. It basically writes off any disagreement as people dressing for a "pretend job".
KozmoNau7 6y ago
>Cargo pants are not the solution here, as they are huge and baggy and the pockets flop around with anything in them. You're getting the wrong pants if that's the case. For a time now, I've been buying work pants almost exclusively. Not the cargo pants with flappy hip pockets, but the lighter duty work pants or "service pants", though I'm not 100% sure of the correct english word for them. They're work pants, but not made for heavy physical labor. Specifically I've been buying pants from the Swedish brand Blåkläder. The quality is just so far beyond chinos or affordable jeans you can get today, and there are so many practical pockets. Even though I work in an office as a computer toucher, I like wearing these work pants, also as a statement of solidarity with the people who ply their trades out in the real world. If you want something that doesn't have cargo pockets, Varusteleka's tactical jeans are utterly amazing, the most comfortable jeans I've ever worn. Their worker pants are great too, but somewhat more old-fashioned in design. Slim fit pants just need to go away forever, honestly. They're needlessly uncomfortable for literally not benefit at all, plus you even look stupid in them.
- Nursie 6y ago
  > I'm not 100% sure of the correct english word for them. In the UK we might call them "combats" or "combat trousers", and the best ones tend to come from military surplus stores.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    I considered that term, but the ones I like the most are made from heavyweight cotton twill, similar in weight to denim but with a different weave and feel. Whereas I think combat pants are generally some sort of polycotton or cordura ripstop fabric. So it's "service" as in service tech or mechanic, not military service.
    - funnybeam 6y ago
      Another UK commenter - over here that cotton twill is known as moleskin and a lot of the army surplus is in that fabric which I agree is much nicer than the ripstop stuff
Tyr42 6y ago
I actually had a pair of shorts with a small pocket in around that spot, and I liked putting my phone in there. I can totally get behind this idea, though I'd like to try these first.
bane 6y ago
Pants with various side pockets have been around for literally decades -- in a wide variety of styles. I even had a pair of nice looking dress slacks in the late 90s with pockets that were almost exactly like this and were for holding phones, wallets, and PDAs. I think I got them at Costco since shock the pants being so fitted made them uncomfortable to hold stuff in the other pockets. It's a nice blog post showing why they solve a problem and how to iterate, but it's about as novel as wearing a coat to keep from getting cold. I suspect you and the blog author are unusual in that you don't know about this pretty common pant type.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  I've never seen dress pants with side pockets like this (that is, not cargo pants) for sale at a major retailer. If they really are so common, what are they called and can you point me to an online store selling them?
  - bane 6y ago
    I believe the pair I had were from Dockers and were called "Dockers Mobile Pocket". More or less like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDAaGSshhhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDAaGSshhhY They were a big enough deal that Time Magazine put them in their "Best inventions of 2001" list: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1936165_1936256_1936668,00.html http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,288... In the end, I didn't really care for them and it looks like most people didn't either as they're discontinued. The cargo pocket was more fussy than just putting my stuff in the regular old pockets. I think I remember hitting things with my knees a lot in certain positions. These days? I guess it depends on what you consider "dress pants", but for pants that don't scream "I'm working construction or shooting a gun during an invasion"...looking around for a bit, Dickies, Red Kap, Scottevest (promoted by Steve Wozniak specifically as a good pair of pants for big phones), Docker D3 line. I've definitely seen them at places like Target, JoS.A.Bank, etc. Tactical brands like 5.11, Woolrich, Propper, etc. will also sell "discreet" or "concealed carry" cargo pants that look basically like normal slacks. There's also a ton of plain old fitted and fashion cargo pants around too. I think Armani, Betabrand, etc. has some. They look a bit obnoxious to me I'm afraid.
lnanek2 6y ago
Still doesn't seem super different, personally. Women seem to already have cargo options that aren't like you say: http://becomechic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20-Ways-To-Wear-Cargo-Pants-2.jpg http://becomechic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20-Ways-To-... https://www.memorandum.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/i-ivory-white-dressy-cropped-cargo-pants-navy-shell-brown-cognac-and-gold-belt-navy-ankle-strap-gold-hardware-sandals-pumps-ann-taylor-work-wear-fashion-style-blog-san-francisco.jpg https://www.memorandum.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/i-ivor... And there's some men's one out there similar: https://www.hugoboss.com/us/relaxed-fit-cargo-pants-in-italian-fabric/hbna50420075_350.html https://www.hugoboss.com/us/relaxed-fit-cargo-pants-in-itali... https://www.wearfigs.com/pages/shop-products/mens-axim-cargo-scrub-pants-navy https://www.wearfigs.com/pages/shop-products/mens-axim-cargo... Although as a programmer, no one would bat an eye if I wore shorts to work, even, so I find the author's claims that cargos can't be worn to an office kind of outdated. Maybe he's a car salesman or something and his boss forces his to wear a suit.
msla 6y ago
The dismissiveness is a reflection of the author's own, plus the fact fashion is inherently classist: It's the rich telling the poor they don't dress well, and making up rules for why they're right. It's impossible to gainsay those rules, because you end up with a courtier's reply, in very nearly the literal sense.
- BradyDale 6y ago
  oh for goodness sake -- there is no community on earth that doesn't have rules about "fashion" You think low income people don't? Try wearing a skinny tie and cufflinks to a honkytonk in Oklahoma and see what happens.

msla 6y ago

> awful hip pocket bulges Who says they're awful? Why do they say that? We must be informed and skeptical consumers.

m0xte 6y ago
I rather like the hammer pants look myself.
- Eric_WVGG 6y ago
  Jodhpurs have to make a comeback sooner or later
  - m0xte 6y ago
    Bring it. Andre 3000 here I come :)
fanimalmanimal 6y ago
Obviously this is a personal preference. For example. I think they’re awful. I don’t think these pants are the solution though. I do appreciate the effort.
groby_b 6y ago
Can we have opinions on our clothes without having to give every random person on the Internet a full justification? Why yes, yes we can. But, OK, let's answer it. The first answer is right in the fine article: Hip pockets lead to bad posture when sitting. They cause back pain. The second answer is that if you dress for aesthetic instead of functional reasons, one of the very first concerns is silhouette. And if you care about that, you often care about the torso first, lines second, limbs third. (Note: Since it's an aesthetic judgment, it depends on your preferences) Hip pockets ruin the look of the torso and lines from any angle except a pure frontal view. Worse, they ruin it for tight and loose fitting clothes (because for loose fit, hip pockets with anything of significant weight hangs awkwardly) This pocket design addresses the first issue completely, and the second issue somewhat. (You'll still notice a change in the line especially on tight fit, but it's less noticeable because it's not affecting torso, and it's not at the end of limbs - which get more attention than the middle) Maybe our list of maximes to follow should include "we must assume that people have a reason for what they do, and question somebody else's aesthetical judgment followed by an accusation that they're uninformed or unquestioning is not the best conversational gambit".
- bscphil 6y ago
  > The second answer is that if you dress for aesthetic instead of functional reasons, one of the very first concerns is silhouette. See, I think you've missed what everyone in this thread is trying to get at. The defense of cargo pants is based on a pretty simple dialectic: · Who determines what is fashionable or "aesthetic"? Mostly, the people who design, sell, and advertise clothes. And also, people who directly profit off of being fashionable. · What metrics do they use to decide what they're going to call fashionable? Mostly, whatever will allow them to change styles from year to year and sell as many products as possible and maintain their position at the top of the fashion world. · Is it in our interests to buy into this system of fashion? No! In fact this dialectic has shown that fashion is basically bullshit, and that it's not just morally neutral but good to resist! To try to come up with our own fashions based on what appeals to us personally or simply wearing whatever has the most utility. For the record, I don't necessarily agree with this argument (I lean towards fashion-neutral), but I think this pattern of thinking is extremely common in hacker culture. While I'm cynical about how fashion is created, I don't wear cargo pants either, but that's because I find them much less comfortable than a straight (not slim) cut pair of jeans.
  - dan-robertson 6y ago
    I really struggle to believe that there’s some secret cabal of garment manufacturers conspiring to decide what modifications of their clothes will be desirable in the next season. One reason is that the industry is competitive and mostly full of low margins. If you collude with (some of) your competitors to sell the same thing then your market becomes both smaller and more competitive. Another is that fashion changes don’t necessarily benefit the companies who were previously doing well. I doubt that most of the jeans manufacturers would have wanted leggings to have become so popular, for example.
    - vict00ms 6y ago
      "Determine" isn't synonymous with "dictate". No cabalistic intrigue required.
  - 6y ago

ebg13 6y ago

Absolutely. At first I was intensely disappointed by the post ("why so wordy?", "why no pictures?"), but then I got to the design part and said "holy shit I want this". If people are happy with their cargo pants, no worries . It doesn't conform to a lot of current fashion aesthetic, but if that doesn't hit a person's radar, then cool, great. But a lot of people in the thread here are feeling attacked because someone doesn't like to wear the pants they like to wear. Fashion is aesthetic and therefore subjective, and it changes over time. At one point cargo pants might have even been "cool". I don't remember them ever being "office" though.

flanbiscuit 6y ago
I also really want these! I wear slim-to-skinny jeans and my phone eventually stretches the jean fabric above the pocket and you can see a white outline of my phone. As manufacturers kept increasing mobile screen sizes I'd have to make sure my phone could actually fit in my pocket when buying pants as not every brand consistently use the same pocket depth. Last time I wore cargo pants (probably the late 90s) I remember everything just annoyingly swing around as I walked.
- andrepd 6y ago
  That sounds like a problem with the obnoxiously large phones as well :p
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Sadly the large phone thing seems here to stay, and it’s driving out small phone options :(
    - flanbiscuit 6y ago
      I get Pixel phones to get stock Android and reliable updates and the smallest I can get are ~6 inch phones. If a 5 inch Pixel was released I'd buy it in a heartbeat

maire 6y ago

For women the problem is worse since we are too curvy to use the exact location of pockets even when clothes are baggy. I find the solution interesting even for women. I solved the same problem by putting the pockets horizontally at the waist. I will try moving the pocket down to the upper leg.

samstave 6y ago
I suggest, as I stated in my other post, looking at the LuLuLemon pockets - specifically, having the pocket be a webbing/spandex material which cinches the contents of the pocket to the body such that it doesnt flop about and also secures the contents into the pocket. I like the horizontal, but maybe a 15 degree angle would be best, however, do the horiz pockets get in the way when you sit?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- maire 6y ago
  The pockets don't get in the way when I sit because the pocket is just below the waist. I started with the Silhouette 3 piece yoga pattern (which has a side panel) and made the pocket horizontal. It seems to me you can take an off-the-rack pair of pants and make the same modification.
telesilla 6y ago
Further, we are all curvy in different ways. I couldn't wear either of the trousers he made, without the fabric bunching. Other women might fit one or the other, or none. I like my pockets in the back, for example, but I need zips so things don't fall out and maybe a way of securing them so things don't get stolen and well it's all too hard so I just carry a purse unless it's running pants and I just need to slot my house key in there.. I hope for the return for Zozosuit, personally. I didn't get a chance to buy anything before they shut down but I enjoyed the measurement process and was hopeful for a good pair of jeans. https://qz.com/quartzy/1539036/the-zozosuit-has-been-an-expensive-mistake-for-japans-zozo-inc/ https://qz.com/quartzy/1539036/the-zozosuit-has-been-an-expe...

hristov 6y ago

Guess what, people do not like being insulted. If you are going to say to a large number of people that their clothes and by extension them "look bad" you are going to get a lot of pissed off responses. It is completely healthy and miles better than the alternative of internalizing it, believing you look bad feeling embarrassment, humiliation, guilt, etc. By the way this is the way the fashion industry has operated for a long time and people are rightfully sick of it. The author would have done much better to avoid making general statements. He could have said something like "i really do not like the way pockets look on my pants. I like to wear tight pants and large pockets really ruin that look."

nvrspyx 6y ago
Where did the author insult cargo pants users? This is all I saw mentioning cargo pants in the article. > Appendix: Sam, have you simply invented cargo pants? > No. Cargo pants solve different problems for different people. > If cargo pants are appropriate for your daily life, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa. Cargo pants aren’t office-wear; these dress pants aren’t combat-wear. EDIT: it seems like the author edited the article. Never mind.
- yencabulator 6y ago
  > Cargo pants aren’t office-wear That sounds like an awfully pretentious office, that I personally would never agree to work in.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    I'm currently wearing cargo _shorts_; I bet I wouldn't be allowed past the foyer. ;)

ChuckMcM 6y ago

Interestingly I have a pair of pants (these: https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the-fly-relaxed-fit-pants-46202.html https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-duluthflex-dry-on-the-fly..., see pocket detail here: https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-dtc-master-catalog/default/dwf9cf92ba/images/large/46202_alt_03.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit https://www.duluthtrading.com/dw/image/v2/BBNM_PRD/on/demand...) They implement this pocket strategy and work well for me. The author would likely be interested to know that this topic was covered in detail as an engineering exercise in NASA flight suits. More functional pockets for people strapped into a vehicle. One of the more interesting innovations was a pocket on the top of the thigh for holding flight checklists or maps. It had a clear cover so that what was inside the pocket could be viewed without taking it out. A phone pocket like that would be pretty cool (and way nerdy but hey, if the pocket fits ... :-))

metaphor 6y ago
> They implement this pocket strategy and work well for me. Superficially, perhaps. But the zipper inclusion makes your example the "strategic" difference that properly considers the importance of what might be stored in such a pocket. IMHO, the author's approach is overshadowed by cost cutting, where the narrative serves to distract the reader with discourse on "method" that doesn't quite align with the original problem description.
tgb 6y ago
I recall clicking a Duluth Trading link from a thread not so unlike this on HN years ago and then being followed by ads for their jeans across the internet for at least a year. Of course, I remember that just after clicking your link.
- eli 6y ago
  Probably google ads. You can click the little x in the corner and make that particular ad go away.
  - skinkestek 6y ago

msla 6y ago

The dismissiveness comes from dismissing cargo pants for being associated with manual labor.

mumblemumble 6y ago
Here, again, is what was actually said: Cargo pants solve different problems for different people. If cargo pants are appropriate for your daily life, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa. Cargo pants aren’t office-wear; these dress pants aren’t combat-wear. This is not dismissing cargo pants or the wearing thereof. This is dismissing the failure to grasp that details matter a lot in fashion, and the detailing in cargo pants renders them inappropriate to certain contexts. It even directly acknowledges that this goes both ways, and that the detailing on these pants would render them inappropriate to the contexts that cargo pants are designed for (if not limited to).
- howenterprisey 6y ago
  The article has been edited. A few scrolls below, the article was quoted[0] as saying: >No. Cargo pants are fashion-as-pretend-occupation — when not at work, wear a fancy chronometer to suggest you’re a pilot or a diver, or camo to suggest you’re in the military. Cargo pants are a paratrooper costume. Cargo shorts have giant external pouches so teenagers in the 90’s, trapped in school, could say (sartorially) “I go out into the world and do adventurous things!” even though the things they stored in those pouches were doritos and portable cd players. >I am discussing clothing as it might be worn by people while doing their real jobs, not their pretend ones. If cargo pants are appropriate for your real job, you definitely don’t want or need my side-seam welt pockets; and vice-versa." [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23881595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23881595

harimau777 6y ago

I think it may be more a reaction to the dismissiveness of the article. It basically writes off any disagreement as people dressing for a "pretend job".

KozmoNau7 6y ago

>Cargo pants are not the solution here, as they are huge and baggy and the pockets flop around with anything in them. You're getting the wrong pants if that's the case. For a time now, I've been buying work pants almost exclusively. Not the cargo pants with flappy hip pockets, but the lighter duty work pants or "service pants", though I'm not 100% sure of the correct english word for them. They're work pants, but not made for heavy physical labor. Specifically I've been buying pants from the Swedish brand Blåkläder. The quality is just so far beyond chinos or affordable jeans you can get today, and there are so many practical pockets. Even though I work in an office as a computer toucher, I like wearing these work pants, also as a statement of solidarity with the people who ply their trades out in the real world. If you want something that doesn't have cargo pockets, Varusteleka's tactical jeans are utterly amazing, the most comfortable jeans I've ever worn. Their worker pants are great too, but somewhat more old-fashioned in design. Slim fit pants just need to go away forever, honestly. They're needlessly uncomfortable for literally not benefit at all, plus you even look stupid in them.

Nursie 6y ago
> I'm not 100% sure of the correct english word for them. In the UK we might call them "combats" or "combat trousers", and the best ones tend to come from military surplus stores.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  I considered that term, but the ones I like the most are made from heavyweight cotton twill, similar in weight to denim but with a different weave and feel. Whereas I think combat pants are generally some sort of polycotton or cordura ripstop fabric. So it's "service" as in service tech or mechanic, not military service.
  - funnybeam 6y ago
    Another UK commenter - over here that cotton twill is known as moleskin and a lot of the army surplus is in that fabric which I agree is much nicer than the ripstop stuff

Tyr42 6y ago

I actually had a pair of shorts with a small pocket in around that spot, and I liked putting my phone in there. I can totally get behind this idea, though I'd like to try these first.

bane 6y ago

Pants with various side pockets have been around for literally decades -- in a wide variety of styles. I even had a pair of nice looking dress slacks in the late 90s with pockets that were almost exactly like this and were for holding phones, wallets, and PDAs. I think I got them at Costco since shock the pants being so fitted made them uncomfortable to hold stuff in the other pockets. It's a nice blog post showing why they solve a problem and how to iterate, but it's about as novel as wearing a coat to keep from getting cold. I suspect you and the blog author are unusual in that you don't know about this pretty common pant type.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
I've never seen dress pants with side pockets like this (that is, not cargo pants) for sale at a major retailer. If they really are so common, what are they called and can you point me to an online store selling them?
- bane 6y ago
  I believe the pair I had were from Dockers and were called "Dockers Mobile Pocket". More or less like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDAaGSshhhY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDAaGSshhhY They were a big enough deal that Time Magazine put them in their "Best inventions of 2001" list: http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1936165_1936256_1936668,00.html http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,288... In the end, I didn't really care for them and it looks like most people didn't either as they're discontinued. The cargo pocket was more fussy than just putting my stuff in the regular old pockets. I think I remember hitting things with my knees a lot in certain positions. These days? I guess it depends on what you consider "dress pants", but for pants that don't scream "I'm working construction or shooting a gun during an invasion"...looking around for a bit, Dickies, Red Kap, Scottevest (promoted by Steve Wozniak specifically as a good pair of pants for big phones), Docker D3 line. I've definitely seen them at places like Target, JoS.A.Bank, etc. Tactical brands like 5.11, Woolrich, Propper, etc. will also sell "discreet" or "concealed carry" cargo pants that look basically like normal slacks. There's also a ton of plain old fitted and fashion cargo pants around too. I think Armani, Betabrand, etc. has some. They look a bit obnoxious to me I'm afraid.

lnanek2 6y ago

Still doesn't seem super different, personally. Women seem to already have cargo options that aren't like you say: http://becomechic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20-Ways-To-Wear-Cargo-Pants-2.jpg http://becomechic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20-Ways-To-... https://www.memorandum.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/i-ivory-white-dressy-cropped-cargo-pants-navy-shell-brown-cognac-and-gold-belt-navy-ankle-strap-gold-hardware-sandals-pumps-ann-taylor-work-wear-fashion-style-blog-san-francisco.jpg https://www.memorandum.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/i-ivor... And there's some men's one out there similar: https://www.hugoboss.com/us/relaxed-fit-cargo-pants-in-italian-fabric/hbna50420075_350.html https://www.hugoboss.com/us/relaxed-fit-cargo-pants-in-itali... https://www.wearfigs.com/pages/shop-products/mens-axim-cargo-scrub-pants-navy https://www.wearfigs.com/pages/shop-products/mens-axim-cargo... Although as a programmer, no one would bat an eye if I wore shorts to work, even, so I find the author's claims that cargos can't be worn to an office kind of outdated. Maybe he's a car salesman or something and his boss forces his to wear a suit.

msla 6y ago

The dismissiveness is a reflection of the author's own, plus the fact fashion is inherently classist: It's the rich telling the poor they don't dress well, and making up rules for why they're right. It's impossible to gainsay those rules, because you end up with a courtier's reply, in very nearly the literal sense.

BradyDale 6y ago
oh for goodness sake -- there is no community on earth that doesn't have rules about "fashion" You think low income people don't? Try wearing a skinny tie and cufflinks to a honkytonk in Oklahoma and see what happens.