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Wasn't meant to be an attack -- they just solve a different problem for a different demographic. Like I said -- if you can wear cargo pants at work, then these
by diiq 6y ago
Wasn't meant to be an attack -- they just solve a different problem for a different demographic. Like I said -- if you can wear cargo pants at work, then these pants probably don't mean much to you.
- wolfram74 6y agoI dunno, "fashion-as-pretend-occupation" feels like a negative connotation, sort of a "stolen valor" for professions the supposed person imagines as more prestigious or moral than what they actually do, adventurer or craftsman vs, say, insurance claims adjuster.
- diiq 6y agoYeah, when I have a moment I'll rewrite that section. I clearly missed the mark tonally. At least I know folks read all the way to the end, I suppose.
- thebooktocome 6y agoI don't think you missed the mark. Some people just like military cosplay a lot and get offended when you call out what they're doing.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoAnd some people just like having lots of pockets and don't care how it looks.
- yencabulator 6y agoAnd some people don't think tight pants look good.
- djrogers 6y agoPerhaps, but there are also a lot of people with not-pretend jobs that can and do wear cargo pants (and shorts!). The implication as originally written was that if you can or do wear such clothing at work, you don’t have a ‘real’ job. That’s patently ridiculous. Heck, some of my highest earning years of late had me working with customers where I’d be more likely to see flip-flops than a collared shirt.
- msla 6y agoThe article says that people who like cargo pants are unemployed idiots.
- michaelt 6y agoI'll agree cargo pants are military cosplay if you'll agree that denim jeans are cowboy cosplay.
- saaaaaam 6y agoBlue denim jeans pretty much are cowboy cosplay. That’s why they got popular and why they remain popular. The close association with Marlboro Man rugged outdoorsy “masculinity” is an enduring part of their appeal. Even if people aren’t consciously aware of that association driving them when they appreciate a pair of blue denim jeans decades of advertising has undoubtedly inserted that stereotype firmly into the commmon (sub) conscious. Even the premium Japanese denim brands play with the semiotics of denim as “honest” or “rugged” or “no nonsense” or “not fancy” all of which are tropes drawn from the mid-century American ideal of cowboys as a picture of perfect masculine achievement.
- bscphil 6y agoBetter comparison: trousers are how middle (and upper middle) class Americans cosplay as their millionaire (and billionaire) CEOs.
- thebooktocome 6y agoYeah, okay. That was easy.
- rainbow-road 6y agoFor the people who want a ton of pockets on their pants, cargo pants are pretty much the only option. Do you earnestly believe that all of these people "just like military cosplay"? Edit: Or maybe I'm wrong, and there are other kinds of pants with many pockets.
- DanBC 6y agoHow are you defining cargo pants? These have ten pockets. https://shop.bluffworks.com/products/ascender-chino-regular-fit-desert-khaki https://shop.bluffworks.com/products/ascender-chino-regular-...
- thebooktocome 6y ago"Some X are Y" does not imply "all X is Y"; I held the former while you infer I hold the latter.
- rainbow-road 6y agoFair enough, but I inferred the "all X is Y" bit from the first sentence, in which you said "I don't think you missed the mark" regarding a paragraph which, IIRC, did essentially imply that cargo shorts are by nature deceitful.
- msla 6y agoThinking cargo pants are "lesser" for being associated with manual labor is just disgustingly classist.
- glogla 6y agoI'm not sure cargo pants themselves are "cosplay". A lot of male fashion comes from military - peacoats, bomber jackets, parkas, trench coats, pretty much any boots, etc. And a lot of it comes from jobs - trucker jackets, denim, engineer coats, boiler coats, etc etc. It becomes kinda cosplay when you have guy in desert camo cargo pants with huge belt with multitool on it, in desert combat boots and beige t-shirt ... in an office, coding Java. But I'm the guy who goes there wearing M65, jeans and Doc Martens so who am I to talk. Also you can get slim and stretch cargo pants, which removes the biggest complaint fashion people ususlly have with cargo pants (OMG HUGE BAGGY) and are more techwear/streetwear than military. Unless you get them in camo.
- borkt 6y agoYeah, it’s a bit intense. I’m a licensed professional engineer who works what is traditional described as a white collar job yet wear cargo pants about every day as I’m regularly in the field supervising and inspecting work. My wife is The winemaker at a small but well know boutique biodynamic winery overlooking the ocean here which is a job many people glamorize, yet likewise she wears cargo pants for work everyday (except for events of course). By all means cargo pants for a pure coder who doesn’t tinker is sensible, but when I’m hacking away on electronics projects at home they come in handy to hold tools and parts. In your defense I’ve found the recent trend of wealthy, highly fashionable Women wearing skin tight ancient camo patterns from the mid 20th century equally as deplorable as you speak about cargo pants here, and for all I know there is someone who can disagree with my opinion quite reasonably as well. EDIT: The little runway video on this link about perfectly sums up everything I feel is wrong. I do not understand anything going on here - all stars with loose camo pants and a denim carhartt jacket? SMH https://www.mrporter.com/en-us/mens/product/carhartt-wip/clothing/casual-trousers/colton-camouflage-print-cotton-ripstop-trousers/2307389542180926?cm_mmc=Google-ProductSearch-US--m-_-MRP_EN_US_PLA-_-MRP+-+US+-+GS+-+Holiday+%26+Sale--Promotional+-+Clothing_AM&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8r4BRCzARIsAA21i_A6KTfXTz-nc1aRrZ8XK5_jkShg2XAbkTg2dwiw0B284iaFueYt2Y4aAm3pEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds https://www.mrporter.com/en-us/mens/product/carhartt-wip/clo...
- nordsieck 6y ago> I dunno, "fashion-as-pretend-occupation" feels like a negative connotation, sort of a "stolen valor" for professions the supposed person imagines as more prestigious or moral than what they actually do, adventurer or craftsman vs, say, insurance claims adjuster. I mean, the OG "fashion as pretend occupation" are just pants in general. The purpose of pants is a piece of clothing that lets you ride horses comfortably. Everywhere people started riding horses (and hence wearing pants), it became fashionable for non-horse-riders to wear pants as well. The world is full of people who own objects that help them project an image, essentially the essence of jewelry. IMO, that's not really a bad thing (unless your highest value is authenticity) it's just what people do. This isn't to say that there aren't people who actually use the objects for their intended purpose. But what percent of people who drive trucks regularly haul stuff or drive off-road?
- ghostpepper 6y agoWhat were the non-horse riders wearing prior to pants? Tunics?
- nordsieck 6y ago> What were the non-horse riders wearing prior to pants? Tunics? I'm not an expert on clothing history, so I don't want to give bad info. I'm sure there are good resources out there if you're curious enough. I'd assume, though, that it varied by latitude.
- jacobolus 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hose_(clothing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hose_(clothing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunic
- jablan 6y agoCertainly sounds like an attack. As if someone can't wear cargo pants simply for their utility or, god forbid, find them actually aesthetically appealing.
- usrusr 6y agoLots of jobs do come with a sartorial difficulty level above absolute zero. Not all jobs, but many. Particularly for women (which would be a whole new can of worms we better shouldn't open here) A widespread low-but-definitely-nonzero would be that you can absolutely wear what you like, but half of the informal roles that are within the scope of your job description are effectively closed unless you dress the part.
- yencabulator 6y agoWhy would that be defensible or desirable? The blog author comes across as fetishizing that shallow, expensive, your-opinion-dictated-by-fashion, world.
- LeifCarrotson 6y agoI'm currently at work (thank Pomodoro for HN breaks, curse Murphy for causing everything to fall apart at the same time on a Friday). I'm a college-educated, homeowner, married, father of one, controls engineer. I spend my days at work between my office programming and designing industrial automation equipment, on the shop floor building it, and customer sites selling, upgrading, or maintaining it. I'm not a punk kid, nor am I a paratrooper, and I don't pretend to be nor do I look like either of those things. I'm currently wearing cargo pants (Columbia Flex Roc). I typically wear Levi's 541s. The Columbia pants do happen to have a side-seam welt pocket that that meets all your requirements. They're comfortable both in a customer conference room or if I'm on the plant floor inside a machine. I think the reason people are offended by your characterization is that they wear 'cargo pants' but we are not in a different demographic. My Columbia pants solve the exact problem you have and are worn by people exactly within your demographic. (Not to mention physically closer than you think, after a bit of stalking your website, I'm 20 miles north of you, we probably have some of the same clients). Though it's also possible that they're not cargo pants, maybe they're dad pants. That.... might be the case. And perhaps you're rebelling against becoming one of 'those' middle-aged men. Just give in to it. Have you tried carrying your multitool in the side seam pocket? It's just so handy! :)
- gertrunde 6y agoI'm really not sure those Columbia trousers are cargo pants at all, they're certainly not what I believe the article author was referring to anyway. (Quite like them though - didn't expect HN to be a place to find clothing recommendations...).
- diiq 6y agoCould be. But the only demographic I named was "people who can wear cargo pants to work", so you kind of set me up for a "no true scotsman". There are events, and clients, to which I wouldn't wear cargo pants, therefore we're in different demographics :) It is a little disheartening to spend so much time talking about cargo pants, when I relegated them to a postscript and only mentioned them to say "I am not talking about cargo pants". But nice to meet another michigander! Hopefully I'll see you at some meetup or event once we have those sorts of things again.