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>> But really, at this point I no longer care. >> I'll watch the debate with some disinterest. > Come on, don't be like that. You started this thread! Onl

>> But really, at this point I no longer care. >> I'll watch the debate with some disinterest. > Come on, don't be like that. You started this thread! Only because I thought it was an idea with some value. > Let's just argue the pros and cons, there is nothing > personal about that. Never said or thought there was. >> Personally, I see that effect as part of the cause >> of the rush to submit mediocre links, and I don't >> think bmelton's idea will fix that. > ... I've just started a point by point reply and I've realised that I really don't care. I'll let people who do care argue the pros and cons - I don't think it matters, it won't change. Besides, if I've learned anything, I've learned that everything I believe about people's behavior is probably wrong. > The only problem I see with this approach is that it > will be easy for people with a lot of karma to abuse > the system. Nearly every user name I click on has > several thousands of points to spare. I first came to this site when PG asked me to submit a link that I'd sent him. If I'd had to accumulate karma before submitting I wouldn't be here. Perhaps that's themain thing that bothers me about such barriers to entry. The really clever people I personally know would mostly just not bother and go elsewhere. Many of the mediocre people would stay, comment, get karma, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Who would you rather have? > At this point I believe we are in danger of taking > this whole karma thing too seriously. But like it or not, it will - and does - drive a lot of the behavior on the site. Getting it right, or even getting it better, would be a Good Thing(tm).

Udo 16y ago
> Besides, if I've learned anything, I've learned that everything I believe about people's behavior is probably wrong. What do you mean by that? > If I'd had to accumulate karma before submitting I wouldn't be here. Perhaps that's themain thing that bothers me about such barriers to entry. Many communities have these barriers and in the occasional situation where HN's submission quality suffers, it's partly due to the fact that people can submit links without limit. > I first came to this site when PG asked me to submit a link that I'd sent him. I believe most people come here to comment first, then later they discover how to post their own links. It's basic etiquette to find out more about a site's style first before imposing content on it like this. It's highly unusual for (non-spam) users that are not already part of a community to post an article. In your very very special case, this process was inverted because you were specifically invited. PG could easily have given your account a "free karma bonus" to allow you to post.
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  >> Besides, if I've learned anything, I've learned that >> everything I believe about people's behavior is >> probably wrong. > What do you mean by that? Every time I've tried to reason carefully about the effect something will have, or the factors that will drive behavior, or the reasons people will do things, I've been wrong. I've been reading things like Dan Ariely's irrationality pieces, and Freakonomics, and other similar works, and nothing really resonates with me. In discussion with my wife and other close friends the consensus is taht it a very real sense I'm simply "not normal." So protracted discussions about what might or might not "fix HN" are likely - for me - to be unprofitable. Experiment is essential, and I don't have the means. Or the time.

Udo 16y ago

> Besides, if I've learned anything, I've learned that everything I believe about people's behavior is probably wrong. What do you mean by that? > If I'd had to accumulate karma before submitting I wouldn't be here. Perhaps that's themain thing that bothers me about such barriers to entry. Many communities have these barriers and in the occasional situation where HN's submission quality suffers, it's partly due to the fact that people can submit links without limit. > I first came to this site when PG asked me to submit a link that I'd sent him. I believe most people come here to comment first, then later they discover how to post their own links. It's basic etiquette to find out more about a site's style first before imposing content on it like this. It's highly unusual for (non-spam) users that are not already part of a community to post an article. In your very very special case, this process was inverted because you were specifically invited. PG could easily have given your account a "free karma bonus" to allow you to post.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
>> Besides, if I've learned anything, I've learned that >> everything I believe about people's behavior is >> probably wrong. > What do you mean by that? Every time I've tried to reason carefully about the effect something will have, or the factors that will drive behavior, or the reasons people will do things, I've been wrong. I've been reading things like Dan Ariely's irrationality pieces, and Freakonomics, and other similar works, and nothing really resonates with me. In discussion with my wife and other close friends the consensus is taht it a very real sense I'm simply "not normal." So protracted discussions about what might or might not "fix HN" are likely - for me - to be unprofitable. Experiment is essential, and I don't have the means. Or the time.