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Youtube's recommendation algorithm is one of the wonders of the modern world. I discovered so many incredible videos that I would never have searched for and th

Youtube's recommendation algorithm is one of the wonders of the modern world. I discovered so many incredible videos that I would never have searched for and that no one would have recommended to me, thanks to it.

scottoreily 6y ago
Nice anecdote. YouTube constantly recommends me stuff I have 0 interest in.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  Did you give it any useful information? I mean for example, I am subscribed to a bunch of channels about music theory, and Youtube will put other videos about music theory and analysis in my feed. They are highly relevant and at least somewhat popular, so usually reasonable quality. Sometimes it will start recommending videos from a channel that is not so good, and you can tell it to never show you that channel again. If you only watch random Youtube videos linked from other sites with no particular theme, or generic news and political videos, or don't subscribe to any channels, I can imagine the recommendations would be pretty useless. But the algorithm does seem pretty good at recommending things related to your interests if those are clear from what you watch and subscribe to. It's probably the only recommendation engine I find useful.
  - patwalls 6y ago
    My point is less about the content being useful/interesting and more about being mindful of our information diet. How many videos do you need to watch about music theory? Does it ever feel like the same content but regurgitated in different ways? Do you watch this to genuinely learn? Or is it more enjoyment/infotainment? (honest questions) I don't study music theory, but this is how I feel about productivity/self-help/business videos, which dominate my feed. Although these videos were life changing at one point, I'm not sure how much more value I'm getting by continuing to watch these anymore. When I get to the end of these videos, nowadays, I just feel a bit 'bleh'. It feels nice to find new, refreshing content that is completely outside of what the youtube algo would give me, and sometimes that happens by talking to friends (esp in different industries), reading books, old blog posts, etc. I want to stay curious and proactive in finding discovering new things and hobbies and interests.
    - ubercow13 6y ago
      I appreciate the general point of being careful about one's information diet. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking what you're consuming is bettering you, when it's really just entertainment (I consider HN to be a good example of this!) Regarding Youtube and music education, I feel like it's a pretty healthy stream of content. >Does it ever feel like the same content but regurgitated in different ways? Learning an instrument is such a challenging and broad topic, there's no shortage of things to learn. One thing I like about Youtube is that the better content can surface for everyone to access. Finding a good teacher in real life can be tricky, but with Youtube I can watch 10 different people's takes on a topic and see which explanation clicks for me. >Do you watch this to genuinely learn? Or is it more enjoyment/infotainment? It's both. Staying motivated, interested and enthusiastic is just as important as the learning itself. Often watching a good performance or explanation of some musical idea is what makes me want to pick up my guitar in the first place. Of course there's a balance to be found - just watching videos about things you would do if you weren't so busy watching videos isn't much use.
- fluffernutter 6y ago
  Same here. It's constantly hoping I'll watch videos I've already watched and its forgotten I've watched.
blueboo 6y ago
Whether it’s flat earth theory, a pundit eviscerating a college student, the global warming hoax, or exposing how exaggerated the threat of coronavirus is, the recommendation algorithm certainly keeps us clicking!
- amadeuspagel 6y ago
  I mean, yes, if you do click on these things, then youtube will keep recommending them to you. It's like a mirror.
Kiro 6y ago
I mostly use YouTube to listen to some pretty obscure music genres and I discover most of my new music through the recommendations. I guess it's hit or miss but for some it obviously works great.
fernandotakai 6y ago
honestly? same! thanks to "the algorithm" i was able to find a bunch of amazing cooking channels that 100% improved my cooking skills.
ubercow13 6y ago
Indeed. I can't empathise with the OP at all. I guess it depends how you use these platforms. For them, it seems to boil down to: >I’ll still come across the best content organically - such as a friend sending me a video or a tweet, or when I go searching for that content with intent. This person is very lucky to have such interesting friends whose interests align so closely with theirs, and who are willing to put in all the effort of content discovery on their behalf. My friends mainly send me dog videos and memes.
davidwparker 6y ago
Agreed. I'm not sure what the OP is referring to (Astros cheating scandal), but I get great recommendations as it's based on view and like: Starcraft 2 pro matches, interesting algorithms and maths, lots of bodyweight fitness/calisthenics/gymnastics- it's fantastic!
- syndacks 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_s... OP is basically saying, "I know about this, YT knows I know about this, and I'm still hearing about it [even-though there are theoretically more important (new) things I'm _not_ knowing about b/c of recommendation algo]"
TheRealPomax 6y ago
This is, in large part, because of you. You're quite lucky, but the algorithm is designed to keep people watching Youtube, it's not designed to enrich people's lives, and that means that if someone who isn't you, and who is susceptible to clickbait titles, starts to click recommendations, the algorithm silos them and their recommendations are effectively forever at best drivel, but more often than not, active disinformation or even horrifying (plenty of stories on how the algorithm is very much not interested in making your life better over on https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/campaigns/youtube-regrets/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/campaigns/youtube-regrets/)
agakshat 6y ago
My personal experience with Youtube recommendations has been really bad for a long time now. The only videos it recommends that I care to watch are from channels I'm already subscribed to, so no big victory there - any content from new creators is very rarely interesting. My (unproven) theory behind this is that since I started using Firefox and Duck Duck Go, the algorithm has been starved of data about my preferences (apparently, only Youtube search and view history is not good enough).
Reedx 6y ago
Comparing YouTube logged in vs logged out... it's no contest really. Logged in is far more useful, even when not including Premium (no ads) and other features. Logged out I'm seeing mostly useless viral videos that I have no interest in. By default it appears to me that YouTube recommends pure sugar. Whereas logged in you can steer it away from that.

scottoreily 6y ago

Nice anecdote. YouTube constantly recommends me stuff I have 0 interest in.

ubercow13 6y ago
Did you give it any useful information? I mean for example, I am subscribed to a bunch of channels about music theory, and Youtube will put other videos about music theory and analysis in my feed. They are highly relevant and at least somewhat popular, so usually reasonable quality. Sometimes it will start recommending videos from a channel that is not so good, and you can tell it to never show you that channel again. If you only watch random Youtube videos linked from other sites with no particular theme, or generic news and political videos, or don't subscribe to any channels, I can imagine the recommendations would be pretty useless. But the algorithm does seem pretty good at recommending things related to your interests if those are clear from what you watch and subscribe to. It's probably the only recommendation engine I find useful.
- patwalls 6y ago
  My point is less about the content being useful/interesting and more about being mindful of our information diet. How many videos do you need to watch about music theory? Does it ever feel like the same content but regurgitated in different ways? Do you watch this to genuinely learn? Or is it more enjoyment/infotainment? (honest questions) I don't study music theory, but this is how I feel about productivity/self-help/business videos, which dominate my feed. Although these videos were life changing at one point, I'm not sure how much more value I'm getting by continuing to watch these anymore. When I get to the end of these videos, nowadays, I just feel a bit 'bleh'. It feels nice to find new, refreshing content that is completely outside of what the youtube algo would give me, and sometimes that happens by talking to friends (esp in different industries), reading books, old blog posts, etc. I want to stay curious and proactive in finding discovering new things and hobbies and interests.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    I appreciate the general point of being careful about one's information diet. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking what you're consuming is bettering you, when it's really just entertainment (I consider HN to be a good example of this!) Regarding Youtube and music education, I feel like it's a pretty healthy stream of content. >Does it ever feel like the same content but regurgitated in different ways? Learning an instrument is such a challenging and broad topic, there's no shortage of things to learn. One thing I like about Youtube is that the better content can surface for everyone to access. Finding a good teacher in real life can be tricky, but with Youtube I can watch 10 different people's takes on a topic and see which explanation clicks for me. >Do you watch this to genuinely learn? Or is it more enjoyment/infotainment? It's both. Staying motivated, interested and enthusiastic is just as important as the learning itself. Often watching a good performance or explanation of some musical idea is what makes me want to pick up my guitar in the first place. Of course there's a balance to be found - just watching videos about things you would do if you weren't so busy watching videos isn't much use.
fluffernutter 6y ago
Same here. It's constantly hoping I'll watch videos I've already watched and its forgotten I've watched.

blueboo 6y ago

Whether it’s flat earth theory, a pundit eviscerating a college student, the global warming hoax, or exposing how exaggerated the threat of coronavirus is, the recommendation algorithm certainly keeps us clicking!

amadeuspagel 6y ago
I mean, yes, if you do click on these things, then youtube will keep recommending them to you. It's like a mirror.

Kiro 6y ago

I mostly use YouTube to listen to some pretty obscure music genres and I discover most of my new music through the recommendations. I guess it's hit or miss but for some it obviously works great.

fernandotakai 6y ago

honestly? same! thanks to "the algorithm" i was able to find a bunch of amazing cooking channels that 100% improved my cooking skills.

ubercow13 6y ago

Indeed. I can't empathise with the OP at all. I guess it depends how you use these platforms. For them, it seems to boil down to: >I’ll still come across the best content organically - such as a friend sending me a video or a tweet, or when I go searching for that content with intent. This person is very lucky to have such interesting friends whose interests align so closely with theirs, and who are willing to put in all the effort of content discovery on their behalf. My friends mainly send me dog videos and memes.

davidwparker 6y ago

Agreed. I'm not sure what the OP is referring to (Astros cheating scandal), but I get great recommendations as it's based on view and like: Starcraft 2 pro matches, interesting algorithms and maths, lots of bodyweight fitness/calisthenics/gymnastics- it's fantastic!

syndacks 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Astros_sign_stealing_s... OP is basically saying, "I know about this, YT knows I know about this, and I'm still hearing about it [even-though there are theoretically more important (new) things I'm _not_ knowing about b/c of recommendation algo]"

TheRealPomax 6y ago

This is, in large part, because of you. You're quite lucky, but the algorithm is designed to keep people watching Youtube, it's not designed to enrich people's lives, and that means that if someone who isn't you, and who is susceptible to clickbait titles, starts to click recommendations, the algorithm silos them and their recommendations are effectively forever at best drivel, but more often than not, active disinformation or even horrifying (plenty of stories on how the algorithm is very much not interested in making your life better over on https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/campaigns/youtube-regrets/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/campaigns/youtube-regrets/)

agakshat 6y ago

My personal experience with Youtube recommendations has been really bad for a long time now. The only videos it recommends that I care to watch are from channels I'm already subscribed to, so no big victory there - any content from new creators is very rarely interesting. My (unproven) theory behind this is that since I started using Firefox and Duck Duck Go, the algorithm has been starved of data about my preferences (apparently, only Youtube search and view history is not good enough).

Reedx 6y ago

Comparing YouTube logged in vs logged out... it's no contest really. Logged in is far more useful, even when not including Premium (no ads) and other features. Logged out I'm seeing mostly useless viral videos that I have no interest in. By default it appears to me that YouTube recommends pure sugar. Whereas logged in you can steer it away from that.