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I hate to say it but, at this point this kinda stuff comes across as anti-American propaganda to me. It’s always an assertion that the U.S. is terrible on some

I hate to say it but, at this point this kinda stuff comes across as anti-American propaganda to me. It’s always an assertion that the U.S. is terrible on some metric that upon further digging was measured in some arbitrary way to get the desired conclusion. Here’s the thing: living in the United States, for a significant percentage of the population, is pretty awesome. For people not within that group, maybe it is easy to believe that the U.S. is dystopian. But IMO the solution might really be to keep working at extending the awesome to the rest of the people. Not be disingenuous about the awesome, that makes people want to tear everything down.

whb07 6y ago
The poorest states in US have higher wealth than the GDP/capita of say UK and other western EU countries. What does that tell you?
- stormdennis 6y ago
  People in the UK don't live in trailer parks
  - whiddershins 6y ago
    What is wrong with a trailer park. I’ve lived in a trailer park. Is this just a random classist dig? Or are you under the impression that trailer parks are an unmitigated hell? Some people in the U.K. do live in public housing, don’t know what it’s like, perhaps it is way nicer than a trailer park. But I don’t know, do you?
    - stormdennis 6y ago
      Maybe the perception is different but to me living in a caravan however big feels like one step above living in a motel which seems to be another thing that hand to mouth Americans have to put up with. You'd think that in a country as big and rich as America that workers could afford a home.
      - dangus 6y ago
        "Trailers" in trailer parks are not portable like a caravan or recreational vehicle. They are full modular homes that are delivered by truck, yes, so they're initially on a trailer. But once they are "installed" they are full homes. They can't be moved on a whim, it would cost thousands of dollars to relocate a trailer home. In other words, it's just a factory-built home that's delivered via truck in one piece. Think of like a nice three bedroom apartment, that's what a brand new mobile home would get you. You can also get doublewides that are delivered on two trailers and put together into one home. Here's an example: https://www.redmanhomesofindiana.com/home-plans-photos/advantage-1680-265 https://www.redmanhomesofindiana.com/home-plans-photos/advan... Mobile homes can be built on an owned plot of land, or on rented space ("trailer parks"). Mobile homes may be one of the best values in America in terms of comfortable, detached living at a low cost. The idea that people in mobile homes live in squalor seems to me to be somewhat discriminatory.
        stormdennis 6y ago
        Fair enough, I still don't like the sound of them one little bit though. No one in this country would consider one of those a house though, however well appointed they are. The way people living in them are portrayed on TV/film doesn't help either though.
- EliRivers 6y ago
  Putting aside that you're comparing the wealth of a state (a single amount of value) with a GDP (an amount of economic activity per year) per person, which makes no sense at all [0], it tells us that the GDP per capita can be horribly misleading; especially in countries known to have unusually high levels of economic inequality. Bill Gates walks into a dive bar; that bar suddenly has the richest clientele in the city, but almost all of them are the same poverty stricken people they were ten seconds previously. [0] It's like comparing a hundred dollars with fifty dollars per year spread amongst four people - the units of comparison just don't match at all.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > The poorest states in US have higher wealth than the GDP/capita of say UK and other western EU countries. > What does that tell you? Nothing. Why would you compare wealth of a state (the aggregate of a stock) with GDP/capita, a per person flow. I mean, it's true, but it's also true that the poorest EU country has greater wealth than the GDP/capita of the richest US state. Heck, the poorest country even in the process of joining the EU, Montenegro, has $26 billion in wealth, the US state, territory, or federal district with the highest GDP/capita is D.C. with $200,277, which is ~5 orders of magnitude less.
- dangus 6y ago
  Name an EU state that will charge you $275 for insulin. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964
bccdee 6y ago
It's interesting to me that you perceive the US getting a bad evaluation as some sort of deliberate smear against America. If that were the case, you would expect to see the US mentioned in some detail in the actual report [1]. It's not; they primarily focus on labour violations in the developing world. The rating the US gets is pretty incidental. While it's easy to see life in the US as awesome from our perspective, we work in tech. The median US income is about $40,000, and the lower quartile is $22,000 [2]. Fully a quarter of Americans live in the $0-$22,000 income bracket, and another quarter live in $22,000-$40,000. > But IMO the solution might really be to keep working at extending the awesome to the rest of the people. Then surely workers' rights are exactly what we should be discussing, right? Labour activism is what drives wages up in profitable industries. How is it "anti-American" to discuss problems which we're trying to solve -- if anything, it's pro-American, since it's part of an effort to improve America. [1]: https://www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/ituc_globalrightsindex_2020_en.pdf https://www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/ituc_globalrightsindex_2020... [2]: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-perce...
- whiddershins 6y ago
  Whether or not the report targeted the US, the article certainly did. It’s not clear that “worker’s rights” legislation and regulation is in any way related to spreading the awesome. People tend to do as you just did, assert this as self evident, but that glosses over a whole category of political and social philosophy that strongly disagrees. The United States is fantastically prosperous, and the relatively unregulated hiring environment may have been a component. And I’m not talking about workers in tech, I don’t think their life is that awesome. I think people living in a small town in Kentucky with a beautiful little house and great food, plenty of nature, surrounded by friends and family. That’s the awesome so many Americans have.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

whb07 6y ago

The poorest states in US have higher wealth than the GDP/capita of say UK and other western EU countries. What does that tell you?

stormdennis 6y ago
People in the UK don't live in trailer parks
- whiddershins 6y ago
  What is wrong with a trailer park. I’ve lived in a trailer park. Is this just a random classist dig? Or are you under the impression that trailer parks are an unmitigated hell? Some people in the U.K. do live in public housing, don’t know what it’s like, perhaps it is way nicer than a trailer park. But I don’t know, do you?
  - stormdennis 6y ago
    Maybe the perception is different but to me living in a caravan however big feels like one step above living in a motel which seems to be another thing that hand to mouth Americans have to put up with. You'd think that in a country as big and rich as America that workers could afford a home.
    - dangus 6y ago
      "Trailers" in trailer parks are not portable like a caravan or recreational vehicle. They are full modular homes that are delivered by truck, yes, so they're initially on a trailer. But once they are "installed" they are full homes. They can't be moved on a whim, it would cost thousands of dollars to relocate a trailer home. In other words, it's just a factory-built home that's delivered via truck in one piece. Think of like a nice three bedroom apartment, that's what a brand new mobile home would get you. You can also get doublewides that are delivered on two trailers and put together into one home. Here's an example: https://www.redmanhomesofindiana.com/home-plans-photos/advantage-1680-265 https://www.redmanhomesofindiana.com/home-plans-photos/advan... Mobile homes can be built on an owned plot of land, or on rented space ("trailer parks"). Mobile homes may be one of the best values in America in terms of comfortable, detached living at a low cost. The idea that people in mobile homes live in squalor seems to me to be somewhat discriminatory.
      - stormdennis 6y ago
        Fair enough, I still don't like the sound of them one little bit though. No one in this country would consider one of those a house though, however well appointed they are. The way people living in them are portrayed on TV/film doesn't help either though.
EliRivers 6y ago
Putting aside that you're comparing the wealth of a state (a single amount of value) with a GDP (an amount of economic activity per year) per person, which makes no sense at all [0], it tells us that the GDP per capita can be horribly misleading; especially in countries known to have unusually high levels of economic inequality. Bill Gates walks into a dive bar; that bar suddenly has the richest clientele in the city, but almost all of them are the same poverty stricken people they were ten seconds previously. [0] It's like comparing a hundred dollars with fifty dollars per year spread amongst four people - the units of comparison just don't match at all.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> The poorest states in US have higher wealth than the GDP/capita of say UK and other western EU countries. > What does that tell you? Nothing. Why would you compare wealth of a state (the aggregate of a stock) with GDP/capita, a per person flow. I mean, it's true, but it's also true that the poorest EU country has greater wealth than the GDP/capita of the richest US state. Heck, the poorest country even in the process of joining the EU, Montenegro, has $26 billion in wealth, the US state, territory, or federal district with the highest GDP/capita is D.C. with $200,277, which is ~5 orders of magnitude less.
dangus 6y ago
Name an EU state that will charge you $275 for insulin. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47491964

bccdee 6y ago

It's interesting to me that you perceive the US getting a bad evaluation as some sort of deliberate smear against America. If that were the case, you would expect to see the US mentioned in some detail in the actual report [1]. It's not; they primarily focus on labour violations in the developing world. The rating the US gets is pretty incidental. While it's easy to see life in the US as awesome from our perspective, we work in tech. The median US income is about $40,000, and the lower quartile is $22,000 [2]. Fully a quarter of Americans live in the $0-$22,000 income bracket, and another quarter live in $22,000-$40,000. > But IMO the solution might really be to keep working at extending the awesome to the rest of the people. Then surely workers' rights are exactly what we should be discussing, right? Labour activism is what drives wages up in profitable industries. How is it "anti-American" to discuss problems which we're trying to solve -- if anything, it's pro-American, since it's part of an effort to improve America. [1]: https://www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/ituc_globalrightsindex_2020_en.pdf https://www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/ituc_globalrightsindex_2020... [2]: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-perce...

whiddershins 6y ago
Whether or not the report targeted the US, the article certainly did. It’s not clear that “worker’s rights” legislation and regulation is in any way related to spreading the awesome. People tend to do as you just did, assert this as self evident, but that glosses over a whole category of political and social philosophy that strongly disagrees. The United States is fantastically prosperous, and the relatively unregulated hiring environment may have been a component. And I’m not talking about workers in tech, I don’t think their life is that awesome. I think people living in a small town in Kentucky with a beautiful little house and great food, plenty of nature, surrounded by friends and family. That’s the awesome so many Americans have.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]