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While at the same time this is the real headline “U.S ranked first as country most desired to immigrate to among all countries”. Conversely: “Highly paid tech

by whb07 6y ago

While at the same time this is the real headline “U.S ranked first as country most desired to immigrate to among all countries”. Conversely: “Highly paid tech workers in the US believe Marxism will do wonders for the average person”

cryptica 6y ago
>> U.S ranked first as country most desired to immigrate to among all countries” This is because US has very good marketing and most of the numbers are deceptive. I think if you ask typical US immigrants how the reality corresponds with their prior expectations, I think the theme will be disappointment. Huge US salaries sound very attractive to people from other countries, but I think that when they actually arrive on the ground and they realize how high the costs of living are (especially rents), and they realize that they have almost 0 negotiating power due to visa requirements, the salaries don't look so good anymore. The same can be said about big cities in any developed country. People leave small towns in droves to live in big cities with big salaries but it's only when they arrive there physically that they understand how terrible a deal it actually is. A person who lives in a small or medium-sized town is able to buy multiple houses with land on a small salary and even rent them out to others for profit. In big cities, a typical highly paid worker can barely afford a single shoebox-sized apartment for themselves. I've worked as a software developer all over the world (Australia, Russia, The Netherlands, UK, Germany) and I worked remotely for a US company for 1 year and have spoken with hundreds of people about this so I should have a pretty good idea of how it works.
- logicchains 6y ago
  >I think if you ask typical US immigrants how the reality corresponds with their prior expectations, I think the theme will be disappointment. Do you have any numbers on what percentage return home?
  - spamizbad 6y ago
    One paper showed about 1/3rd. Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/1/116/tab-figures-data https://www.pnas.org/content/116/1/116/tab-figures-data
    - NoOneNew 6y ago
      Yea, that paper is trying to prove their novel way of estimating emigration flow. I couldn't find anywhere that their numbers were proven with hard reported numbers.
- whb07 6y ago
  I wasn’t referring to tech workers. I’m referring to the bottom half of the world.
- jawns 6y ago
  I read a profile a few years ago about a poor Mexican town whose male residents almost all spent the early part of their working years in one particular rural area of Delaware. They would work hard and send back a substantial amount to their families in their hometown, then they would return home a few years later with enough money to buy a home or open a business. I found it interesting that most expressed a sense of gratitude toward Delaware and the U.S., even though they were doing unenviable jobs and earning unenviable wages. But it certainly seems like there was still the potential for a type of arbitrage: earn as much as you can in a place where earnings are comparatively high, while keeping your cost of living as low as possible, and then take all your savings back home, where the money goes a lot farther.
- everydaydriver 6y ago
  U.S. advertises itself as a place to immigrate to? I think it does very well on that front without any "marketing". It's not perfect, but it's still the greatest country in the world with an economic system that is second to none.
- matz1 6y ago
  >Huge US salaries sound very attractive to people from other countries, but I think that when they actually arrive on the ground and they realize how high the costs of living are (especially rents), and they realize that they have almost 0 negotiating power due to visa requirements, the salaries don't look so good anymore. On the contrary, they realize they can make a lot of money here and then bring their friend and relatives to come here. When you compare that salary with what they get in their home country, it really put it in perspective. I don't know why you think its the marketing, in fact usa actively discourage and make it really difficult for people to emigrate here.
spamizbad 6y ago
> Conversely: “Highly paid tech workers in the US believe Marxism will do wonders for the average person” People equating things like workers rights or even modest social safety nets with Marxism is incidentally probably doing more to "promote" Marxism than anything else.

by whb07 6y ago

cryptica 6y ago

>> U.S ranked first as country most desired to immigrate to among all countries” This is because US has very good marketing and most of the numbers are deceptive. I think if you ask typical US immigrants how the reality corresponds with their prior expectations, I think the theme will be disappointment. Huge US salaries sound very attractive to people from other countries, but I think that when they actually arrive on the ground and they realize how high the costs of living are (especially rents), and they realize that they have almost 0 negotiating power due to visa requirements, the salaries don't look so good anymore. The same can be said about big cities in any developed country. People leave small towns in droves to live in big cities with big salaries but it's only when they arrive there physically that they understand how terrible a deal it actually is. A person who lives in a small or medium-sized town is able to buy multiple houses with land on a small salary and even rent them out to others for profit. In big cities, a typical highly paid worker can barely afford a single shoebox-sized apartment for themselves. I've worked as a software developer all over the world (Australia, Russia, The Netherlands, UK, Germany) and I worked remotely for a US company for 1 year and have spoken with hundreds of people about this so I should have a pretty good idea of how it works.

logicchains 6y ago
>I think if you ask typical US immigrants how the reality corresponds with their prior expectations, I think the theme will be disappointment. Do you have any numbers on what percentage return home?
- spamizbad 6y ago
  One paper showed about 1/3rd. Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/1/116/tab-figures-data https://www.pnas.org/content/116/1/116/tab-figures-data
  - NoOneNew 6y ago
    Yea, that paper is trying to prove their novel way of estimating emigration flow. I couldn't find anywhere that their numbers were proven with hard reported numbers.
whb07 6y ago
I wasn’t referring to tech workers. I’m referring to the bottom half of the world.
jawns 6y ago
I read a profile a few years ago about a poor Mexican town whose male residents almost all spent the early part of their working years in one particular rural area of Delaware. They would work hard and send back a substantial amount to their families in their hometown, then they would return home a few years later with enough money to buy a home or open a business. I found it interesting that most expressed a sense of gratitude toward Delaware and the U.S., even though they were doing unenviable jobs and earning unenviable wages. But it certainly seems like there was still the potential for a type of arbitrage: earn as much as you can in a place where earnings are comparatively high, while keeping your cost of living as low as possible, and then take all your savings back home, where the money goes a lot farther.
everydaydriver 6y ago
U.S. advertises itself as a place to immigrate to? I think it does very well on that front without any "marketing". It's not perfect, but it's still the greatest country in the world with an economic system that is second to none.
matz1 6y ago
>Huge US salaries sound very attractive to people from other countries, but I think that when they actually arrive on the ground and they realize how high the costs of living are (especially rents), and they realize that they have almost 0 negotiating power due to visa requirements, the salaries don't look so good anymore. On the contrary, they realize they can make a lot of money here and then bring their friend and relatives to come here. When you compare that salary with what they get in their home country, it really put it in perspective. I don't know why you think its the marketing, in fact usa actively discourage and make it really difficult for people to emigrate here.

spamizbad 6y ago

> Conversely: “Highly paid tech workers in the US believe Marxism will do wonders for the average person” People equating things like workers rights or even modest social safety nets with Marxism is incidentally probably doing more to "promote" Marxism than anything else.