3 ms·

I owe no loyalties to corporates, I have other interests that I would like to spend time on and pursue more than convincing stakeholders to make decisions that

I owe no loyalties to corporates, I have other interests that I would like to spend time on and pursue more than convincing stakeholders to make decisions that should have been made long ago to have them avoided being put in the position they are now. If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it.

jolux 6y ago
>If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it. I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. That's all. Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice.
- cinquemb 6y ago
  > I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. For you, not for others. > Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice. I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. And I can just accept an offer from another place rather than outright reject them.
  - jolux 6y ago
    >For you, not for others. So I see. >I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that.
    - cinquemb 6y ago
      > Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that. It's business, things fail. The problem is that people have come to accept that things shouldn't fail has made it so that it has built up to the point where it is today. Id call this environment Dirac-delta solvency.
      - jolux 6y ago
        I mean, some things shouldn't fail. I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US.
        cinquemb 6y ago
        > I mean, some things shouldn't fail. This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. > I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US. No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change.
        jolux 6y ago
        > This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. When I say some things shouldn’t fail, I mean our collective ability to keep each other alive and well. Whatever business of the day can go fuck itself, I don’t care. > No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change. What assumptions are you talking about? I’m talking about welfare.
        cinquemb 6y ago
- mostlyghostly 6y ago
  My point is frequently your world descends into a flaming pile of shit unannounced. Go ask the career restaurant workers how the year is going. Go ask the tourism guides and travel agents. Go ask their bosses how they intend to keep the doors open with an 80% decline in revenue. Short answer: you can't.
  - jolux 6y ago
    I don’t understand what your point is. You think I don’t get this? This is a thread about giving executives bonuses when the company is going bankrupt.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      No, it’s a thread about rewarding executives for managing to keep any semblance of a company alive. A company that comes out of bankruptcy is much more valuable than one that doesn’t. The shareholders have to compensate the execs enough to entice them to go through that rather than leave for greener pastures where their shares won’t be worthless and they won’t have to fire people.
      - kelnos 6y ago
        That seems to be the "common sense knowledge", but I see little evidence to back that up. Yes, certainly for a specific company, coming out of bankruptcy is more valuable than not, but I'm not convinced it's always a net positive for society as a whole, especially if doing so requires things like exacerbating our already messed up wage inequality situation.

jolux 6y ago

>If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it. I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. That's all. Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice.

cinquemb 6y ago
> I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. For you, not for others. > Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice. I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. And I can just accept an offer from another place rather than outright reject them.
- jolux 6y ago
  >For you, not for others. So I see. >I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that.
  - cinquemb 6y ago
    > Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that. It's business, things fail. The problem is that people have come to accept that things shouldn't fail has made it so that it has built up to the point where it is today. Id call this environment Dirac-delta solvency.
    - jolux 6y ago
      I mean, some things shouldn't fail. I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US.
      - cinquemb 6y ago
        > I mean, some things shouldn't fail. This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. > I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US. No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change.
        jolux 6y ago
        > This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. When I say some things shouldn’t fail, I mean our collective ability to keep each other alive and well. Whatever business of the day can go fuck itself, I don’t care. > No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change. What assumptions are you talking about? I’m talking about welfare.
        cinquemb 6y ago
mostlyghostly 6y ago
My point is frequently your world descends into a flaming pile of shit unannounced. Go ask the career restaurant workers how the year is going. Go ask the tourism guides and travel agents. Go ask their bosses how they intend to keep the doors open with an 80% decline in revenue. Short answer: you can't.
- jolux 6y ago
  I don’t understand what your point is. You think I don’t get this? This is a thread about giving executives bonuses when the company is going bankrupt.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    No, it’s a thread about rewarding executives for managing to keep any semblance of a company alive. A company that comes out of bankruptcy is much more valuable than one that doesn’t. The shareholders have to compensate the execs enough to entice them to go through that rather than leave for greener pastures where their shares won’t be worthless and they won’t have to fire people.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      That seems to be the "common sense knowledge", but I see little evidence to back that up. Yes, certainly for a specific company, coming out of bankruptcy is more valuable than not, but I'm not convinced it's always a net positive for society as a whole, especially if doing so requires things like exacerbating our already messed up wage inequality situation.