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And they also have less incentive to stay because these are supposedly people who could provide the same work for other companies in similar situations at the s

And they also have less incentive to stay because these are supposedly people who could provide the same work for other companies in similar situations at the same or higher prices. I find myself in this situation right now: ill stay on at higher prices if the company wants to renew its contract, or i'll leave for another place (I have more people emailing me for work than I have before the pandemic and I'm not on any social media and don't have a personal website). In an environment where businesses have been operating on massive leverage for years, there's a fight brewing over who is going to get cash-flows and who will not, this obviously extends to workers who have outsized impact on whether any given business will stay open or file chapter 7/11.

jolux 6y ago
If I'm at a place where people will lose their jobs if I leave the company the answer is simple: I don't leave until that's either not the case or I personally can't afford it anymore.
- cinquemb 6y ago
  I owe no loyalties to corporates, I have other interests that I would like to spend time on and pursue more than convincing stakeholders to make decisions that should have been made long ago to have them avoided being put in the position they are now. If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it.
  - jolux 6y ago
    >If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it. I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. That's all. Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice.
    - cinquemb 6y ago
      > I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. For you, not for others. > Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice. I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. And I can just accept an offer from another place rather than outright reject them.
      - jolux 6y ago
        >For you, not for others. So I see. >I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that.
        cinquemb 6y ago
        > Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that. It's business, things fail. The problem is that people have come to accept that things shouldn't fail has made it so that it has built up to the point where it is today. Id call this environment Dirac-delta solvency.
        jolux 6y ago
        I mean, some things shouldn't fail. I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US.
        cinquemb 6y ago
        > I mean, some things shouldn't fail. This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. > I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US. No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change.
- scarface74 6y ago
  I owe no loyalties to any company. I actually liked the company I just left. I liked the people and thought that the people in management up to and including management were all good people. I am usually far more cynical. Post Covid, they decided to give everyone a pay cut instead of laying off people. This was morally the right thing to do in my opinion. It is a small company and I didn’t feel we had any dead weight. I knew that in my position, the company would struggle a little bit. But what was I suppose to do? Stay out of loyalty or accept an offer that was a 60% increase in total comp at a more stable company?

jolux 6y ago

If I'm at a place where people will lose their jobs if I leave the company the answer is simple: I don't leave until that's either not the case or I personally can't afford it anymore.

cinquemb 6y ago
I owe no loyalties to corporates, I have other interests that I would like to spend time on and pursue more than convincing stakeholders to make decisions that should have been made long ago to have them avoided being put in the position they are now. If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it.
- jolux 6y ago
  >If people insist on making choices that will continue to sink the ship, I don't have to go down with it. I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. That's all. Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice.
  - cinquemb 6y ago
    > I think this calculus flips around when your commitment has entered a stage where other peoples' livelihoods depend on it, basically. For you, not for others. > Get out before it springs a leak in an org like that, is my advice. I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. And I can just accept an offer from another place rather than outright reject them.
    - jolux 6y ago
      >For you, not for others. So I see. >I'll be fine for a long time even if the company goes under, others may not though, I've seen it happen way too many times to not be prepared for stuff like this. Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that.
      - cinquemb 6y ago
        > Yeah, and it's their problem up until the point at which the situation is unrecoverable without you, and even then it's still mostly theirs, but I would have a lot of hangups about acting in a situation like that. It's business, things fail. The problem is that people have come to accept that things shouldn't fail has made it so that it has built up to the point where it is today. Id call this environment Dirac-delta solvency.
        jolux 6y ago
        I mean, some things shouldn't fail. I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US.
        cinquemb 6y ago
        > I mean, some things shouldn't fail. This is just asking for rude awakenings. History is full of these kinds of events of where people thought things shouldn't fail, never prepared for them, and they did. > I would have less qualms about all of this stuff with a strong social safety net, but we don't have that in the US. No one lives in an environment where one can miss-allocate resources indefinitely or under assumptions that somethings can never change.
scarface74 6y ago
I owe no loyalties to any company. I actually liked the company I just left. I liked the people and thought that the people in management up to and including management were all good people. I am usually far more cynical. Post Covid, they decided to give everyone a pay cut instead of laying off people. This was morally the right thing to do in my opinion. It is a small company and I didn’t feel we had any dead weight. I knew that in my position, the company would struggle a little bit. But what was I suppose to do? Stay out of loyalty or accept an offer that was a 60% increase in total comp at a more stable company?