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While I don't think Levandowski is a good guy (he did take a bunch of files, even if I think it's unlikely they were used in any real way), I think the way Goog
by arciini 6y ago
While I don't think Levandowski is a good guy (he did take a bunch of files, even if I think it's unlikely they were used in any real way), I think the way Google pursued him hinders skilled individuals from switching between companies and spreading innovation.
Here's an excerpt from a New Yorker article about the case:
> The judge, William Alsup, quickly tired of such distractions. “Despite the excellent quality of the lawyers here, I cannot trust what they say,” he announced in court. The documents he was being shown, he said, included “a lot of half-truth” and arguments that were “not quite accurate.” Alsup clearly thought that something unseemly had occurred, writing in one ruling that Levandowski had resigned from Waymo “under highly suspicious circumstances,” and that the “14,000-plus purloined files likely contain at least some trade secrets.” He also noted that “it would strain credulity to imagine that Levandowski plundered Waymo’s vault the way he did with no intent to make use of the downloaded trove.” Yet Alsup wasn’t sure if Waymo had demonstrated that any of its information had been used in an illegal manner. “If you can’t prove that Uber got these trade secrets, then maybe you’re in a world of trouble,” he told Waymo’s lawyers.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal-googles-intellectual-property https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...
Faced with a weak case, Google settled quietly for 0.33% of Uber's stock, which is no tiny amount, but definitely not a landmark settlement.
The more concerning part is that:
1. Google pursued Lewandowski with the help of federal prosecutors, using the threat of criminal trade secret charges and
2. He was essentially abandoned by both his former employer and his current employer. The former attacked him to punish him for wrongdoing and to set an example. Uber abandoned him because he became too risky now that he became a weak point that could be exploited in court.
This feels like too much leverage for a former employer to have, regardless of whether you were truly guilty or not. In fact, I think the outcome would have been similar had Lewandowski stolen nothing at all.
- godzillabrennus 6y agoLewandowski still apparently took massive amounts of proprietary data from his employer. Even if he was smart enough to not put that data on his new companies systems we all know he had a way to reference it when necessary.
- loceng 6y agoE.g. Don't steal what's not yours if you don't want to be pursued and have that action leveraged against you..
- zsandwich 6y agoI think the plea deal actually debunked the idea that he took docs. Govt could only "get him" on a meeting minutes doc. And the trade secrets that were found at Uber were software brought over by software engineers that haven't been charged.
- tdrp 6y agoHere's his own quote: "I downloaded this file with the intent to use it for the benefit of someone other than Google," https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/former-google-self-driving-engineer-pleads-guilty-trade-secrets-theft-n1164491 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/former-google-self-dr...
- anxman 6y agoThis isn't accurate. The M&A documentation from Uber confirmed that Levandowski had stolen 5 discs worth of data from Google.
- tdrp 6y agoIIRC he allegedly also tried to wipe all evidence of it which is why it was hard to prove. So it seems he knew what he was doing.
- ramraj07 6y agoWhich sane well intentioned employee takes the company's files with them when they leave?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tedunangst 6y agoIs it really so difficult to not make massive archives shortly before quitting your current employer? The GS programmer had the same problem. Somehow unable to simply walk away without making a backup of everything.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago> make massive archives shortly before quitting your current employer What's the rule on this? two weeks? three months? two years?
- CydeWeys 6y agoThe rule is never. You're never allowed to steal a massive data dump of your employer's IP.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y agoparent said 'make massive archives'... I'm just in charge of backups.
- joshuamorton 6y agoUse corporate devices to take corporate backups. Don't download them onto your personal device.
- toast0 6y agoThe rule is don't put company data on personal equipment unless you're authorized to do so. If the company data is an archive or backup, you probably want that authorization in writing. In small companies, personal equipment might get used incidentally, but if you work for a company with a budget, their data shouldn't go on your machines.
- cletus 6y agoThere’s an easy way to avoid this: just don’t take any documents, source code or equipment from a former employer. That’s all you have to do. Why? Because just by having them it could taint your future work. Not only did Levandowski not to this, he: - bulk downloaded these files near the end of his employment; - was deleting them in the office with Uber’s due diligence team. He may not have benefitted. Uber may not have. But he created this cloud of uncertainty by not doing the common sense thing. My personal theory is that he wanted insurance in case he couldn’t recreate this later if he needed it and/or he felt like this stuff belonged to him because he created it. Even though it’s clearly work product belonging to your employer people get possessive about these things. As for the criminal part, honestly I actually think that’s what this law is for: to criminalize the plundering of commercial IP by by bad actors and competitors.
- pocw 6y agoThe dude stole all the IP. He literally downloaded it all on purpose the day before he left. And took his team with him. And had a meeting with the head of Uber (a rival) the day before he left, to plan his de-facto selling of the Google self driving car project (which he did not own but which he could basically duplicate with stolen IP and poached people). If you or I did any of those things we'd have been crucified. The fact that he's still standing is a testament to our dual legal system, one for the wealthy and powerful and one for the normals. Had he just left without stealing the IP he'd be fine. He even could have gotten away with violating his non-solicit agreement. The fact that nobody can prove he used the stolen material doesn't really apply.
- lambdasquirrel 6y agoNot to mention that his Google comp was in the neighborhood of 9 figures.
- oh_sigh 6y agoDoesn't that count basically include the acquihire that google did for his company?
- Hydraulix989 6y agoWhy would he even give that up to go to Uber (let alone risk criminal charges)? Was he somehow under the impression that he would hit 10 figures at Uber? Why does any single person even need that much money to begin with? Give me 9 figures (or even 7), and I will call it a day. I'm really trying to understand his individual rationalization here.
- KKKKkkkk1 6y agoMoney isn't everything, especially when you already have lots of it. People are willing to go to great lengths when they feel they're being marginalized. On January 7, 2016, Levandowski emailed Larry Page with a plea: “Chauffeur is broken,” he wrote, according to a document revealed during the civil suit. “We’re losing our tech advantage fast.” He offered to start a separate self-driving effort within Google but was shot down. A few weeks later, after allegedly downloading those 14,000 files, he resigned. “I want to be in the driver seat, not the passenger seat, and right now [it] feels like I’m in the trunk,” he told Page. https://www.wired.com/story/anthony-levandowski-put-himself-center-industry/ https://www.wired.com/story/anthony-levandowski-put-himself-...
- unreal37 6y agoGoogle paid him $175 million in bonuses in less than a year. And then he quit, stole all the source code, accessed 30+ Google Docs after he left, and convinced 16 co-workers to leave Google too. That's just asking to be sued. In fact, the major requirement for him to be acquired by Uber was that they indemnify him. He knew he did something wrong.
- justapassenger 6y ago> hinders skilled individuals from switching between companies and spreading innovation This is gross misrepresentation of what happened. It’s not some smart, lone engineer leaving for competition and bringing some good ideas from previous employees with him. It’s an executive (with a technical background, but still), paid insane amount of money, deciding to steal majority of trade secrets for an unreleased product, developed by thousands of people, just so he can sell it to a competitor for an obscene amount of money. It’s not a little guy vs big corp. It’s a greedy and ruthless executive vs corporation.
- jocker12 6y agoHe was no executive. According to his wiki page he "was a technical lead until 2016".
- justapassenger 6y agoBeing tech lead of something as big as self driving effort at google is being an executive. It’s not reviewing pull requests and being nit picky about code quality. It’s running a huge org.
- anxman 6y agoThis guy literally committed a federal crime. I worked for Google and we saw this scum as a traitor.