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> The contractor had disrupted a small link in a vast criminal network that spans much of Mexico. In addition to high-end encrypted cell phones and popular mess

> The contractor had disrupted a small link in a vast criminal network that spans much of Mexico. In addition to high-end encrypted cell phones and popular messaging apps, traffickers still rely heavily on two-way radios like the ones police and firefighters use to coordinate their teams on the ground, six law enforcement experts on both sides of the border told Reuters. How will Mexico ever have peace while it lives next to the largest drug consuming country in the world? While it’s illegal here, the money will go to these cartels.

louwrentius 6y ago
It boggles my mind how people use drugs and not realise that for the drugs they bought, a poor mexican person will have their face cut off while still alive. Buy drugs, fund the cartels. Have mexican people killed. It makes me wonder why life is so bad for so many that they need to use 'the hard stuff'.
- triceratops 6y ago
  It boggles my mind that a poor Mexican person will have their face cut off because someone decided it should be illegal to grow a plant and consume it.
  - louwrentius 6y ago
    I agree
- mullingitover 6y ago
  The poor Mexican person isn't getting their face cut off because of some person doing drugs. They're getting their face cut off because of the government's failure to accept that it can't win the war on drugs, and it's too proud to sue for peace in the form of legalization.
  - louwrentius 6y ago
    I'm all for that.
  - mekkkkkk 6y ago
    Can't both be true at the same time? Just because there are ill-advised legislations in effect doesn't mean that your responsibility as a consumer goes out the window.
    - kwk1 6y ago
      That individual consumer stopping won't actually fix the problem though, it'll just remove from them any moral obligation to do anything to actually fix things under your framework.
      - mekkkkkk 6y ago
        You mean the same way that vegans never act against animal cruelty? If you want to work against drug trafficking empires (by decriminalizing or otherwise) I'd say it makes perfect sense to also not give them your money.
        kwk1 6y ago
        Hmm, I think there's some confusion about my comment here. I'll use your reference to veganism as an example. Individual vegans can choose a diet which, for themselves, minimizes the harm caused by their choices. But at a larger-than-individual scale there are those who recognize that reducing meat consumption means addressing the reasons people eat meat, and that in turn means things like (but not limited to) developing meat alternative products that satiate people's cravings for meat. So, while veganism may be a good enough choice for yourself, it's unrealistic to not recognize the reasons why people don't choose it and to not keep those reasons in consideration when coming up with a strategy.
- cookie_monsta 6y ago
  And how is life without an iPhone treating you?
- goodpoint 6y ago
  I'm not saying that the end user is blameless BUT responsibility comes with agency/power: - the end user has no way to measure the exact impact of his/her actions. The government does. - the end user does not have advice from PhD in chemistry, neurology, psychology, law, economy. The government does. - the end user has no choice to buy from an ethical and legal source. The government can. - the end user cannot publicly ask for help (or forgiveness) of any kind. The government would imprison him/her. - the end user might be living a very harsh life and have little ability to stop using or not to start. The government does not help.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
etrabroline 6y ago
Why do you think Canadians don't have cartel problems like this?
- triceratops 6y ago
  Because they have better options and opportunities.
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  It may not be 'like this' in scale compared to Mexico, but drug-related organized violent crime is a thing in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Vancouver_gang_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Vancouver_gang_war https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-alleged-b-c-hitmen-murdered-within-weeks-of-dubai-slaying https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-alleged... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/increase-drugs-driving-gun-crime-1.5140196 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/increase-drugs-drivi...
  - ghostpepper 6y ago
    One of the gang leaders arrested in 2009 was finally sentenced less that two weeks ago. Pretty crazy how long it took our legal system to prove guilt - eleven years. https://vancouversun.com/news/jamie-bacon-to-plead-guilty-in-surrey-six-and-counselling-to-commit-murder https://vancouversun.com/news/jamie-bacon-to-plead-guilty-in...
- sjg007 6y ago
  The growing season is too short.. also hard to Get to Canada from Mexico.
- wow_no 6y ago
  They do, especially in Toronto. They just don’t advertise it. They’re also not on the way from the major cocaine producing region, Peru.
- cookie_monsta 6y ago
  Because geography. Do you think it is a coincidence that every country between Colombia and the US is struggling with these problems?
pengaru 6y ago
> While it’s illegal here, the money will go to these cartels. Unfortunately legalizing doesn't end this, not when the legalized variants are so much more expensive. There will always be a lucrative black market to serve unless retail is both accessible and cost competitive for all consumers. What I've seen so far with legalized recreational weed in the states is it's incredibly expensive, heavily taxed, and there are tons of illegal marijuana grow operations - more than before because demand has increased thanks to legalizing.
- godelski 6y ago
  I don't know where you are, but weed is cheaper and higher quality now than when I was a teenager.
- Reelin 6y ago
  > not when the legalized variants are so much more expensive That's highly dependent on the particular product and regulation. There's not much of an alcohol or tobacco black market in the US as far as I can tell because the regulation seems to consist almost exclusively of a sin tax applied to product sold for human consumption. Compare this to marijuana in WA, where there's some sort of convoluted and expensive licensing system for cultivating it. Then there's a set of byzantine regulations surrounding the cultivation and distribution itself followed up by a sin tax at point of sale. If drug legalization were simply that existing pharmacies could sell existing stock to people who didn't have a prescription subject to a tax (less than 50%) the drug cartels would quite literally lose their entire revenue stream overnight. The controlled substances act then becomes a list of taxed behind-the-counter substances instead of a list of illegal substances. (Bonus: The jobs of academic researches who use such substances immediately becomes _much_ easier. Not for human consumption? No tax issues, just order it from your usual supplier like any other chemical. No more complicated permits and limited availability.) (Extra bonus: No more meth labs in residential neighborhoods illegally disposing of highly toxic compounds, presenting a serious fire hazard, and otherwise endangering the health and safety of everyone nearby. Industrial chemistry belongs in industrial areas, where it can be subject to OSHA and the EPA.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

louwrentius 6y ago

It boggles my mind how people use drugs and not realise that for the drugs they bought, a poor mexican person will have their face cut off while still alive. Buy drugs, fund the cartels. Have mexican people killed. It makes me wonder why life is so bad for so many that they need to use 'the hard stuff'.

triceratops 6y ago
It boggles my mind that a poor Mexican person will have their face cut off because someone decided it should be illegal to grow a plant and consume it.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  I agree
mullingitover 6y ago
The poor Mexican person isn't getting their face cut off because of some person doing drugs. They're getting their face cut off because of the government's failure to accept that it can't win the war on drugs, and it's too proud to sue for peace in the form of legalization.
- louwrentius 6y ago
  I'm all for that.
- mekkkkkk 6y ago
  Can't both be true at the same time? Just because there are ill-advised legislations in effect doesn't mean that your responsibility as a consumer goes out the window.
  - kwk1 6y ago
    That individual consumer stopping won't actually fix the problem though, it'll just remove from them any moral obligation to do anything to actually fix things under your framework.
    - mekkkkkk 6y ago
      You mean the same way that vegans never act against animal cruelty? If you want to work against drug trafficking empires (by decriminalizing or otherwise) I'd say it makes perfect sense to also not give them your money.
      - kwk1 6y ago
        Hmm, I think there's some confusion about my comment here. I'll use your reference to veganism as an example. Individual vegans can choose a diet which, for themselves, minimizes the harm caused by their choices. But at a larger-than-individual scale there are those who recognize that reducing meat consumption means addressing the reasons people eat meat, and that in turn means things like (but not limited to) developing meat alternative products that satiate people's cravings for meat. So, while veganism may be a good enough choice for yourself, it's unrealistic to not recognize the reasons why people don't choose it and to not keep those reasons in consideration when coming up with a strategy.
cookie_monsta 6y ago
And how is life without an iPhone treating you?
goodpoint 6y ago
I'm not saying that the end user is blameless BUT responsibility comes with agency/power: - the end user has no way to measure the exact impact of his/her actions. The government does. - the end user does not have advice from PhD in chemistry, neurology, psychology, law, economy. The government does. - the end user has no choice to buy from an ethical and legal source. The government can. - the end user cannot publicly ask for help (or forgiveness) of any kind. The government would imprison him/her. - the end user might be living a very harsh life and have little ability to stop using or not to start. The government does not help.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

etrabroline 6y ago

Why do you think Canadians don't have cartel problems like this?

triceratops 6y ago
Because they have better options and opportunities.
robotresearcher 6y ago
It may not be 'like this' in scale compared to Mexico, but drug-related organized violent crime is a thing in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Vancouver_gang_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Vancouver_gang_war https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-alleged-b-c-hitmen-murdered-within-weeks-of-dubai-slaying https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/real-scoop-alleged... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/increase-drugs-driving-gun-crime-1.5140196 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/increase-drugs-drivi...
- ghostpepper 6y ago
  One of the gang leaders arrested in 2009 was finally sentenced less that two weeks ago. Pretty crazy how long it took our legal system to prove guilt - eleven years. https://vancouversun.com/news/jamie-bacon-to-plead-guilty-in-surrey-six-and-counselling-to-commit-murder https://vancouversun.com/news/jamie-bacon-to-plead-guilty-in...
sjg007 6y ago
The growing season is too short.. also hard to Get to Canada from Mexico.
wow_no 6y ago
They do, especially in Toronto. They just don’t advertise it. They’re also not on the way from the major cocaine producing region, Peru.
cookie_monsta 6y ago
Because geography. Do you think it is a coincidence that every country between Colombia and the US is struggling with these problems?

pengaru 6y ago

> While it’s illegal here, the money will go to these cartels. Unfortunately legalizing doesn't end this, not when the legalized variants are so much more expensive. There will always be a lucrative black market to serve unless retail is both accessible and cost competitive for all consumers. What I've seen so far with legalized recreational weed in the states is it's incredibly expensive, heavily taxed, and there are tons of illegal marijuana grow operations - more than before because demand has increased thanks to legalizing.

godelski 6y ago
I don't know where you are, but weed is cheaper and higher quality now than when I was a teenager.
Reelin 6y ago
> not when the legalized variants are so much more expensive That's highly dependent on the particular product and regulation. There's not much of an alcohol or tobacco black market in the US as far as I can tell because the regulation seems to consist almost exclusively of a sin tax applied to product sold for human consumption. Compare this to marijuana in WA, where there's some sort of convoluted and expensive licensing system for cultivating it. Then there's a set of byzantine regulations surrounding the cultivation and distribution itself followed up by a sin tax at point of sale. If drug legalization were simply that existing pharmacies could sell existing stock to people who didn't have a prescription subject to a tax (less than 50%) the drug cartels would quite literally lose their entire revenue stream overnight. The controlled substances act then becomes a list of taxed behind-the-counter substances instead of a list of illegal substances. (Bonus: The jobs of academic researches who use such substances immediately becomes _much_ easier. Not for human consumption? No tax issues, just order it from your usual supplier like any other chemical. No more complicated permits and limited availability.) (Extra bonus: No more meth labs in residential neighborhoods illegally disposing of highly toxic compounds, presenting a serious fire hazard, and otherwise endangering the health and safety of everyone nearby. Industrial chemistry belongs in industrial areas, where it can be subject to OSHA and the EPA.)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]