10 ms·

I wouldn't trust any VPN under China's sphere of influence.

hangonhn 6y ago
That's actually not an entirely crazy idea if you're trying to hide from Western governments. Are you more worried about the Chinese government coming after you? Likewise, if someone in China is trying to hide from the Chinese government, it might not be a bad idea to use an USA based VPN. Maybe string up a bunch of VPNs in regions that are at least somewhat hostile to each other and it might be too hard to track an IP back to its source. I guess trust no government and use their hostility towards each other to your advantage? Just an idea prompted by your comment.
- messe 6y ago
  Exactly. One really needs to consider their threat model when deciding on a VPN provider. A perfect system isn't always possible.
- grensley 6y ago
  Yeah, it's like banking. You want it to be in a neutral country whose government has come to a clear understanding with the industry.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  > That's actually not an entirely crazy idea if... Except that it gives them a direct avenue into your network for their own surveillance and other network attacks ... If you think comcast injecting their own JS into http pages is bad, wait you see what the d̶a̶r̶k̶ ̶a̶r̶m̶y̶ CPC could do with such power...
  - vangelis 6y ago
    What's stopping any domestic TLAs from doing the same though?
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      Its more about trust. I trust them to try their best to be benevolent
- skissane 6y ago
  In some cases, a country will support criminal activity in an enemy country, in order to undermine the later. For example, al Qaeda has made a lot of money from trafficking heroin to Western markets – even though al Qaeda thinks drug use is sinful, it justified that as another way of waging war against the West (get enough Westerners addicted to heroin and maybe the West will collapse). And the North Korean government has been heavily involved in drug smuggling and currency counterfeiting – partly that is just to make money, but I'm sure they justify it to themselves by the harm it causes to what they view as enemy states. Indeed, during World War II, Nazi Germany used concentration camp slave labour to counterfeit massive quantities of British currency, in the hope that they could cause inflation and damage to the British economy. So a country might be happy to host a VPN to help criminals in its enemy country evade detection. (I'm not suggesting China is doing anything like that right now. But, even if they are not, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some day the China-West relationship might deteriorate to the point that it becomes something they might consider. )
- k7sune 6y ago
  What’s stopping China from using your data as a bargaining chip to trade for some data they want from, say, CIA?
lihan 6y ago
No one should trust any open internet in the US. Already forgot Edward Snowden?
- throwawayway9 6y ago
  Many people I talk to IRL don't trust any US systems at all. It's a sad state of affairs when one can trust Chinese systems over western. Especially after Snowden. God bless him.
jacquesm 6y ago
I wouldn't trust any VPN that I didn't set up myself.

That's actually not an entirely crazy idea if you're trying to hide from Western governments. Are you more worried about the Chinese government coming after you? Likewise, if someone in China is trying to hide from the Chinese government, it might not be a bad idea to use an USA based VPN. Maybe string up a bunch of VPNs in regions that are at least somewhat hostile to each other and it might be too hard to track an IP back to its source. I guess trust no government and use their hostility towards each other to your advantage? Just an idea prompted by your comment.

messe 6y ago
Exactly. One really needs to consider their threat model when deciding on a VPN provider. A perfect system isn't always possible.
grensley 6y ago
Yeah, it's like banking. You want it to be in a neutral country whose government has come to a clear understanding with the industry.
maerF0x0 6y ago
> That's actually not an entirely crazy idea if... Except that it gives them a direct avenue into your network for their own surveillance and other network attacks ... If you think comcast injecting their own JS into http pages is bad, wait you see what the d̶a̶r̶k̶ ̶a̶r̶m̶y̶ CPC could do with such power...
- vangelis 6y ago
  What's stopping any domestic TLAs from doing the same though?
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    Its more about trust. I trust them to try their best to be benevolent
skissane 6y ago
In some cases, a country will support criminal activity in an enemy country, in order to undermine the later. For example, al Qaeda has made a lot of money from trafficking heroin to Western markets – even though al Qaeda thinks drug use is sinful, it justified that as another way of waging war against the West (get enough Westerners addicted to heroin and maybe the West will collapse). And the North Korean government has been heavily involved in drug smuggling and currency counterfeiting – partly that is just to make money, but I'm sure they justify it to themselves by the harm it causes to what they view as enemy states. Indeed, during World War II, Nazi Germany used concentration camp slave labour to counterfeit massive quantities of British currency, in the hope that they could cause inflation and damage to the British economy. So a country might be happy to host a VPN to help criminals in its enemy country evade detection. (I'm not suggesting China is doing anything like that right now. But, even if they are not, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some day the China-West relationship might deteriorate to the point that it becomes something they might consider. )
k7sune 6y ago
What’s stopping China from using your data as a bargaining chip to trade for some data they want from, say, CIA?

lihan 6y ago

No one should trust any open internet in the US. Already forgot Edward Snowden?

throwawayway9 6y ago
Many people I talk to IRL don't trust any US systems at all. It's a sad state of affairs when one can trust Chinese systems over western. Especially after Snowden. God bless him.

jacquesm 6y ago

I wouldn't trust any VPN that I didn't set up myself.