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We can't keep going on like this. The vulnerability of centralised internet infrastructure is a huge problem for everyone. Somebody, somewhere, really ought to
by rozab 6y ago
We can't keep going on like this. The vulnerability of centralised internet infrastructure is a huge problem for everyone. Somebody, somewhere, really ought to sort it all out
- oliverobscure 6y agoIf it impacts enough wallets, things might change. I'm not holding my breath though.
- parliament32 6y agoWhy not you? Just don't use CF. The more people stay away from CF, the better.
- adsjhdashkj 6y agoI feel like for a lot of sites CF & CDNs are the only way to survive Reddit/HN/etc - do you disagree? I definitely agree in concept with you, but then i think back to how frequently script kiddies took down sites ~10 years ago, or w/e. I feel like what has changes is the massive CDNs in front of so many sites. So while i do want a better solution, i'm not sure what it looks like. Thoughts?
- mmahemoff 6y agoSome kind of decentralized CDN in theory.
- parliament32 6y agoDoes it really matter? If you're small, who cares if you go down for half an hour? What, you'll make $0.02 this hour instead of $0.05? If you're big, you can afford your own infrastructure. Stick a few servers in a few colos around the world and you'll have better uptime than CF and friends anyway.
- slenk 6y agoYou're talking thousands of dollars for colo servers vs. free for CF
- account42 6y ago> I feel like for a lot of sites CF & CDNs are the only way to survive Reddit/HN/etc - do you disagree? Reddit/HN/etc will send all users to the same URL. Almost all of those users will come without any pre-existing cookies. Serving the same content to all those users should not be impossible for most sites without CF or a CDN.
- atemerev 6y agoBe the change you want to see in the world :) There are no somebodys somewheres. One question is how to do DDoS protection without somebody like Cloudflare. Some new protocol for edge caching, perhaps?
- toast0 6y agoDDoS has two components: a) complexity: trick your servers into doing something hard b) volumetric: overwelm your servers with a lot of traffic c) volumetric part two: overwelm your servers with a lot of requests, so you respond with a lot of traffic A and C are things you can work on your self --- try to limit the amount of work your server does in response to requests, and/or make resource consuming responses require resource consuming requests; and monitor and fix hotspots as they're found. B is tricky, there's two ways to solve volumentric attack; either have enough bandwidth to drop the packets on your end, or convince the other end to drop the packets (usually called null routing). Null routes work great, but usually drop all packets to a particular destination IP, which means you need to move your service to another IP if you want it to stay online; that's hard to do if your IP needs to stay fixed for a meaningful time (TTL for glue records at TLDs is usually at least a day); and IP space is limited, so if your attackers are quick at moving attacks, you could run out of IPs to use. Some attacks are going above 1 Tbps though, so that's a lot of bandwidth if you need to accept and drop; and of course, the more bandwidth people get so they can weather attacks, the more bandwidth that can be used to attack others if it's not well secured.
- tick_tock_tick 6y agoB) is the only one that really needs a solution and traffic is breaking two or three levels above you.
- huderlem 6y agoI'm not very familiar with DDoS protection strategies. Can you please elaborate on what is meant in (c) by "make resource consuming responses require resource consuming requests"?
- 6y ago
- remmargorp64 6y agoSounds like a problem for... us!
- juancampa 6y agoIf only there was some website full of computerphiles...
- Reedx 6y ago> Somebody, somewhere, really ought to sort it all out That could be the slogan for 2020
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- fivre 6y ago10-20 minute router misconfigurations and subsequent fixes are sometimes a fact of life. big network infrastructure is complicated, and sometimes the best laid route tables of mice and men do go abloop and die. Outages happen no matter what the infrastructure is. There's no solution, they're just something you need to recognize and handle, which Cloudflare seemingly did relatively quickly here.
- lima 6y agoYes, but other providers are not a single point of failure for a significant percentage of the internet. Level 3 or Telia going offline is perfectly survivable for any customer who has multiple upstreams.
- Kalium 6y agoRemember the big Dyn outage? Or when AWS-US-East was severely disrupted by a hurricane? It may perhaps be an exaggeration to say that there are not other providers that are similarly critical for a significant percentage of the internet.
- iso947 6y agoThink Back to the 80s. Imagine you’re watching the super bowl. Imagine it goes off for 15 minutes.
- peterwwillis 6y agoOr just stop using the internet. The majority of tech problems stem from people using tech. Don't rely on it alone and you don't have problems.
- saagarjha 6y agoYells 'peterwwillis on the internet ;)