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Hey guys, I disagree with codingthewheel's idea, too, but we need to get a little meta here: His comment is not spam. His comment caused discussion. His comm

by Xurinos 16y ago

Hey guys, I disagree with codingthewheel's idea, too, but we need to get a little meta here: His comment is not spam. His comment caused discussion. His comment is an opinion, not a false fact. There are no personal attacks of any kind in his comment, and his language is fine. His argument is simply unpopular. None of your responses indicate any of the usual legitimate reasons for downvoting. So why the downvotes? Do you really want HN to be an echo chamber instead of an arena of civil discussion?

lwhi 16y ago
I think the downvoting in this case is equivalent to saying 'your point of view is dangerous'.
- seabee 16y ago
  Then that's what someone should say, and then promptly get upvoted. Some questions need to be asked, alternative points of view made, and then shown to the world why it's a bad idea; we shouldn't hide them from view to be missed so someone else can make the same mistake.
- oconnore 16y ago
  No, the equivalent would be to click reply, and then type "I think that your point of view is dangerous."
  - lwhi 16y ago
    Meaning can be inferred from the down-voting. I think that was probably the meaning behind most of the negative votes. I actually believe that it's okay to use voting to express whether you agree or disagree with a point. Where's the harm? I think that the experience of reading HN is enhanced when there's contrast between popular and unpopular ideas. If a post is unpopular, it doesn't mean that I don't read it. If anything, I might pay more attention to it. In some cases its lack of popularity might spark more debate; like it has in this case.
    - tedunangst 16y ago
      Downvoting discourages future posts. Then there won't be any posts that disagree with the prevailing sentiment.
      - lwhi 16y ago
        If I believe something, I'll post it even if it is going to prove unpopular. I'd hope most people would do the same. I don't believe down-voting discourages discussion .. I'd argue it often provokes it.
        SomeCallMeTim 16y ago
        Downvoting does more than that. It can hide a discussion, and regardless, it certainly buries it. Not that I have been able to figure out the magic that gets you the ability to downvote, but I don't really feel the need.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        DeusExMachina 16y ago
        There is a Karma threshold to be able to downvote or flag a comment/submission, so you simply don't see the option yet. But indeed it sinks discussions, since the points are one the ways (not the only one) to sort comments.
        wtracy 16y ago
        Apparently it has to do with how much karma you've accumulated. I magically got the ability to downvote some time last week, without any effort on my part.
        SomeCallMeTim 16y ago
        You're just over 500 karma; I'm around 140 as I write this. So I guess I have a ways to go. :) Not that I'm really worried about it one way or another, though.
jedsmith 16y ago
Great point, but I wasn't aware that there are "usual, legitimate" reasons for downvoting, and that these are well-known enough that you can call them the usual reasons. Seems like everybody just uses their best judgment. That said, I didn't downvote him, I simply didn't vote. I don't feel a need to vote on everything, and that extends to downvoting.
- paulitex 16y ago
  > but I wasn't aware that there are "usual, legitimate" reasons for downvoting Yup, there are. Here: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (A clear deviation of the guidelines deserves a downvote, a clear compliance does not. Like any law, there is a grey area in between requiring some amount of judgement. But these guidelines still stand to ground the discussion around what is/isn't a "usual, legitimate" reason for downvoting.)
wladimir 16y ago
As I misunderstood him, I'd like to undo my downvote. It sucks that it's not possible to undo votes on this site.
guelo 16y ago
I downvoted your comment. Meta comments are useless and distract from the on-topic discussion. Yes, I realize this is also a meta comment.

by Xurinos 16y ago

lwhi 16y ago

I think the downvoting in this case is equivalent to saying 'your point of view is dangerous'.

seabee 16y ago
Then that's what someone should say, and then promptly get upvoted. Some questions need to be asked, alternative points of view made, and then shown to the world why it's a bad idea; we shouldn't hide them from view to be missed so someone else can make the same mistake.
oconnore 16y ago
No, the equivalent would be to click reply, and then type "I think that your point of view is dangerous."
- lwhi 16y ago
  Meaning can be inferred from the down-voting. I think that was probably the meaning behind most of the negative votes. I actually believe that it's okay to use voting to express whether you agree or disagree with a point. Where's the harm? I think that the experience of reading HN is enhanced when there's contrast between popular and unpopular ideas. If a post is unpopular, it doesn't mean that I don't read it. If anything, I might pay more attention to it. In some cases its lack of popularity might spark more debate; like it has in this case.
  - tedunangst 16y ago
    Downvoting discourages future posts. Then there won't be any posts that disagree with the prevailing sentiment.
    - lwhi 16y ago
      If I believe something, I'll post it even if it is going to prove unpopular. I'd hope most people would do the same. I don't believe down-voting discourages discussion .. I'd argue it often provokes it.
      - SomeCallMeTim 16y ago
        Downvoting does more than that. It can hide a discussion, and regardless, it certainly buries it. Not that I have been able to figure out the magic that gets you the ability to downvote, but I don't really feel the need.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        DeusExMachina 16y ago
        There is a Karma threshold to be able to downvote or flag a comment/submission, so you simply don't see the option yet. But indeed it sinks discussions, since the points are one the ways (not the only one) to sort comments.
        wtracy 16y ago
        Apparently it has to do with how much karma you've accumulated. I magically got the ability to downvote some time last week, without any effort on my part.
        SomeCallMeTim 16y ago
        You're just over 500 karma; I'm around 140 as I write this. So I guess I have a ways to go. :) Not that I'm really worried about it one way or another, though.

jedsmith 16y ago

Great point, but I wasn't aware that there are "usual, legitimate" reasons for downvoting, and that these are well-known enough that you can call them the usual reasons. Seems like everybody just uses their best judgment. That said, I didn't downvote him, I simply didn't vote. I don't feel a need to vote on everything, and that extends to downvoting.

paulitex 16y ago
> but I wasn't aware that there are "usual, legitimate" reasons for downvoting Yup, there are. Here: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (A clear deviation of the guidelines deserves a downvote, a clear compliance does not. Like any law, there is a grey area in between requiring some amount of judgement. But these guidelines still stand to ground the discussion around what is/isn't a "usual, legitimate" reason for downvoting.)

wladimir 16y ago

As I misunderstood him, I'd like to undo my downvote. It sucks that it's not possible to undo votes on this site.

guelo 16y ago

I downvoted your comment. Meta comments are useless and distract from the on-topic discussion. Yes, I realize this is also a meta comment.