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> A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Personally speaking I'm all good with wearing a mask if they let me out of my house. The Shelter in place

> A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Personally speaking I'm all good with wearing a mask if they let me out of my house. The Shelter in place thing has been such an overreaction that I'm kind of primed to rebel just because I'm so incensed by the violation of rights... Wearing a mask is like requiring wearing a seatbelt. Shelter in place is like saying no one can drive except a few exceptionals.

mynameisvlad 6y ago
I don't believe there are any states currently issuing stay at home (which is different than SIP) orders. It also has 100% not been an overreaction. It saved countless lives by preventing spread. That whole flattening the curve thing and how well countries that have actually followed through and did not open early should show you how effective it has been.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  It would be interesting to see the data of which is more effective. I'm currently biased towards believing that masks were highly effective and SIP orders mostly are not (because people still leave for groceries, for example) . If we create the false dichotomy of Masks vs SIP I would recommend Masks
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    Stay at home orders work because they minimize contact someone has with others. Sure, people might still go to the groceries or other essential tasks. Once or twice a week. But if they're otherwise obeying the order and staying at home then just by not travelling to and from the office, going on recreational walks/drives/etc, and in general being isolated with a few people is obviously going to drastically limit the spread. It's not going to cut it down to 0, but it's still far less than the other extreme of living life normally and interacting with random people and surfaces daily. Why are you even trying to create a false dichotomy? Just stay at home and wear a mask, ffs. It's really not that hard. Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US. It's objectively very simple. Limit contact and limit spread, and you'll have fewer cases. You limit contact by having people stay at home, and you limit spread by having people wear masks. This isn't rocket science or anything.
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      > Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US. It is politicized whenever there is a strong disparity of benefits and costs... It's primarily the old who benefit and primarily the young who suffer by closing down the economy
      - flukus 6y ago
        They exact same disparity exists elsewhere in the world but the politicization is largely an American phenomena, so it's not the disparity by itself to blame.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Shelter in place works everywhere except in America, which is always special. And if people go to buy food, that totally negates lack of contact everywhere else, including restaurants, concerts, offices, schools, sport clubs and so on.
    - Avicebron 6y ago
      I'm curious of your claim that SIP works everywhere except in America? Can you elaborate?
      - maerF0x0 6y ago
        Pretty sure that was sarcasm, implying it's worked very well elsewhere but for some reasons Americans are extra skeptical about the practice.
- base698 6y ago
  The median death rate is 80: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/new-data-reveal-just-how-deadly-covid-19-is-for-the-elderly-11593250200 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/new-da... At best it saved a few people who would have died in a couple of years.
  - jkhaui 6y ago
    It's a fallacy to think that the only outcome of COVID is binary (i.e. death or perfect recovery). Just browse r/covidpositive. There are so many "survivors" who say they still have so much internal organ pain 4 months after being diagnosed, and now they feel hopeless, have suicidal ideation, etc. And from the sounds of it, a lot of these people are in their 20s-40s and could run a marathon pre-COVID.
mnm1 6y ago
Thanks for showing us an example of exactly the kind of stupidity the parent is talking about. The government is well within its rights to require shelter in place. If you don't like it, get your case heard by the Supreme Court and win, but until then, stop pretending you have a right to not be quarantined. You don't. This is exactly the kind of thought and culture that prevents America from doing even the simplest things, like protecting people in a pandemic. A grass roots anti-intellectual culture of stupidity.
- Pinguinsan 6y ago
  You are part of the problem. Stop while you're behind.
shreyansj 6y ago
Which right is being violated in your opinion? And why is that more important than others' right to stay alive?
- Pinguinsan 6y ago
  Because I am selfish and, by and large, don't care about others. Selfish? Yes. Just being honest.
  - objectivetruth 6y ago
    How fascinating, to see someone brag about being selfish. Everyone is on a spectrum of selfishness vs. selflessness, of caring for themselves alone vs. caring only for others. Different societies have different ways of optimizing these balances. Sometimes we "reward" selfishness: a CEO who mercilessly crushes his or her rivals makes a lot of money. A criminal kingpin can "buy" safety and protection, fame and adulation. But humanity hasn't improved over the past ten millennia by embracing selfishness.

mynameisvlad 6y ago

I don't believe there are any states currently issuing stay at home (which is different than SIP) orders. It also has 100% not been an overreaction. It saved countless lives by preventing spread. That whole flattening the curve thing and how well countries that have actually followed through and did not open early should show you how effective it has been.

maerF0x0 6y ago
It would be interesting to see the data of which is more effective. I'm currently biased towards believing that masks were highly effective and SIP orders mostly are not (because people still leave for groceries, for example) . If we create the false dichotomy of Masks vs SIP I would recommend Masks
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  Stay at home orders work because they minimize contact someone has with others. Sure, people might still go to the groceries or other essential tasks. Once or twice a week. But if they're otherwise obeying the order and staying at home then just by not travelling to and from the office, going on recreational walks/drives/etc, and in general being isolated with a few people is obviously going to drastically limit the spread. It's not going to cut it down to 0, but it's still far less than the other extreme of living life normally and interacting with random people and surfaces daily. Why are you even trying to create a false dichotomy? Just stay at home and wear a mask, ffs. It's really not that hard. Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US. It's objectively very simple. Limit contact and limit spread, and you'll have fewer cases. You limit contact by having people stay at home, and you limit spread by having people wear masks. This isn't rocket science or anything.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    > Saving lives should not be this grand political issue it's become in the US. It is politicized whenever there is a strong disparity of benefits and costs... It's primarily the old who benefit and primarily the young who suffer by closing down the economy
    - flukus 6y ago
      They exact same disparity exists elsewhere in the world but the politicization is largely an American phenomena, so it's not the disparity by itself to blame.
- watwut 6y ago
  Shelter in place works everywhere except in America, which is always special. And if people go to buy food, that totally negates lack of contact everywhere else, including restaurants, concerts, offices, schools, sport clubs and so on.
  - Avicebron 6y ago
    I'm curious of your claim that SIP works everywhere except in America? Can you elaborate?
    - maerF0x0 6y ago
      Pretty sure that was sarcasm, implying it's worked very well elsewhere but for some reasons Americans are extra skeptical about the practice.
base698 6y ago
The median death rate is 80: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/new-data-reveal-just-how-deadly-covid-19-is-for-the-elderly-11593250200 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/new-da... At best it saved a few people who would have died in a couple of years.
- jkhaui 6y ago
  It's a fallacy to think that the only outcome of COVID is binary (i.e. death or perfect recovery). Just browse r/covidpositive. There are so many "survivors" who say they still have so much internal organ pain 4 months after being diagnosed, and now they feel hopeless, have suicidal ideation, etc. And from the sounds of it, a lot of these people are in their 20s-40s and could run a marathon pre-COVID.

mnm1 6y ago

Thanks for showing us an example of exactly the kind of stupidity the parent is talking about. The government is well within its rights to require shelter in place. If you don't like it, get your case heard by the Supreme Court and win, but until then, stop pretending you have a right to not be quarantined. You don't. This is exactly the kind of thought and culture that prevents America from doing even the simplest things, like protecting people in a pandemic. A grass roots anti-intellectual culture of stupidity.

Pinguinsan 6y ago
You are part of the problem. Stop while you're behind.

shreyansj 6y ago

Which right is being violated in your opinion? And why is that more important than others' right to stay alive?

Pinguinsan 6y ago
Because I am selfish and, by and large, don't care about others. Selfish? Yes. Just being honest.
- objectivetruth 6y ago
  How fascinating, to see someone brag about being selfish. Everyone is on a spectrum of selfishness vs. selflessness, of caring for themselves alone vs. caring only for others. Different societies have different ways of optimizing these balances. Sometimes we "reward" selfishness: a CEO who mercilessly crushes his or her rivals makes a lot of money. A criminal kingpin can "buy" safety and protection, fame and adulation. But humanity hasn't improved over the past ten millennia by embracing selfishness.