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Florida's positive test rates are in dispute due to large irregularities, specifically, failure to report negative results.[1]. Chalk up The Hill report to more

Florida's positive test rates are in dispute due to large irregularities, specifically, failure to report negative results.[1]. Chalk up The Hill report to more goalseeked nonsense. [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/florida-coronavirus-tests-hospital-disputes-100-positive-report/5445139002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/15/florid...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
meow1032 6y ago
According to Nate Silver, these data come from smaller labs and in total account for a low proportion of tests: https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283144803476283392 https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283144803476283392
newacct583 6y ago
There's no contention that the overall data is bad. The discovery was that some specific labs had dropped their negative numbers, presumably accidentally. Stuff happens, there's a pandemic, labs are crushed. We're never going to get good data. There's no "goalseeking" going on here. If you think the numbers are clearly wrong, what's your source on better ones, or what's your analysis showing what the proper infection rate is among tested children?
- mcrad 6y ago
  No goalseeking? This is a serious allegation what's your source?
  - armada651 6y ago
    Isn't goalseeking the serious allegation here that requires proof?
    - mcrad 6y ago
      Yes and no. Only meant to suggest that goalseeking is very....hmmmm, "pervasive" to the point of commonly accepted and fairly unprovable.
bonzini 6y ago
How do you explain the rise in deaths about 3 weeks after the rise in cases?
Bootwizard 6y ago
Hello, Florida resident here. Our local governments and hospitals have been short on testing supplies since the beginning of the pandemic and are only allowing residents to get tests if they are showing symptoms or if you employed in healthcare (in most places). That means that most likely, the people who are getting tested will test positive. This does skew the numbers but saves our testing supplies for identifying positive cases.
- whymauri 6y ago
  Right, but aren't we (Florida) still doing worse than other states with similar testing policieS?
  - rurban 6y ago
    I've looked into how they administer the swab tests, and they are definitely are doing it wrong. At least the CDC in the Orlando NBA bubble. First they are doing a mouth swab test which will not find anything because there are no receptors in the mouth. Then they are doing a nose swab but only in the nose frontal area (Anterior nares), which is very imprecise. A proper swab test is done wide into the nostrils and swabbing the back area (nasopharyngeal - NP). The way they are doing it will find about 10% of infections, but it hurts much less than a proper NP swab. They are also doing good pulse oximeter tests at the finger, and temperature tests, which is at least something, but only when it's too late already. PCR tests find infections 2 days earlier. My guess is the whole CDC procedures are flawed countrywide. The written CDC guidelines favor NP over OP (mouth) over Anterior nares. International guidelines only recommend NP swabs, nothing else. Maybe they don't dare to hurt the US snowflakes with the NP swabs, so that testing is at least somewhat accepted.
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      Every single person I know who has gotten tested (in Michigan) has had the NP swab.
- scoutt 6y ago
  Are 1/3 of children showing symptoms? That's terrible. Edit: Sorry. I misintepreted parent comment.
cwhiz 6y ago
What do you think The Hill should have done here? The Hill reported on the data provided by the state of Florida. Here is the direct report that the article is based on: http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_ar... Do you think The Hill should have attempted to apologize for the data with hearsay about the numbers? Or should they just report the facts as they are given and leave it up to the state of Florida to clean up their mess?
- jdminhbg 6y ago
  I realize it's hard work, but yes, if numbers are in dispute, it's the job of the media to provide context as to why.
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    If there is some particular hard evidence that the numbers in the article are incorrect I would expect The Hill to report that. As far as I know it is just hearsay, and that's not news. I would not expect The Hill to try and apologize for the official reported numbers. Florida should do a better job.
    - jdminhbg 6y ago
      The hard evidence is in the post you're replying to: > FORT MYERS, Fla. – The Florida Department of Health in its daily COVID-19 report lists multiple laboratories throughout the state – many of them small testing sites – with 100% positivity rates, but Southwest Florida's dominant hospital system said Wednesday it is incorrect to say 100% of their labs are positive. > The Lee Health hospital system is reporting that its laboratory testing of potential COVID-19 cases has shown an overall positivity rate of about 18%, despite the state report showing that all people coming in for testing at some of its labs have the novel coronavirus.
- _jal 6y ago
  The Hill should note the history of the "debate" about the numbers, including the facts we do know about state interference with the data. Why should the state's numbers be privileged when we know the state is being flatly Politburo about them?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

meow1032 6y ago

According to Nate Silver, these data come from smaller labs and in total account for a low proportion of tests: https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283144803476283392 https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283144803476283392

newacct583 6y ago

There's no contention that the overall data is bad. The discovery was that some specific labs had dropped their negative numbers, presumably accidentally. Stuff happens, there's a pandemic, labs are crushed. We're never going to get good data. There's no "goalseeking" going on here. If you think the numbers are clearly wrong, what's your source on better ones, or what's your analysis showing what the proper infection rate is among tested children?

mcrad 6y ago
No goalseeking? This is a serious allegation what's your source?
- armada651 6y ago
  Isn't goalseeking the serious allegation here that requires proof?
  - mcrad 6y ago
    Yes and no. Only meant to suggest that goalseeking is very....hmmmm, "pervasive" to the point of commonly accepted and fairly unprovable.

bonzini 6y ago

How do you explain the rise in deaths about 3 weeks after the rise in cases?

Bootwizard 6y ago

Hello, Florida resident here. Our local governments and hospitals have been short on testing supplies since the beginning of the pandemic and are only allowing residents to get tests if they are showing symptoms or if you employed in healthcare (in most places). That means that most likely, the people who are getting tested will test positive. This does skew the numbers but saves our testing supplies for identifying positive cases.

whymauri 6y ago
Right, but aren't we (Florida) still doing worse than other states with similar testing policieS?
- rurban 6y ago
  I've looked into how they administer the swab tests, and they are definitely are doing it wrong. At least the CDC in the Orlando NBA bubble. First they are doing a mouth swab test which will not find anything because there are no receptors in the mouth. Then they are doing a nose swab but only in the nose frontal area (Anterior nares), which is very imprecise. A proper swab test is done wide into the nostrils and swabbing the back area (nasopharyngeal - NP). The way they are doing it will find about 10% of infections, but it hurts much less than a proper NP swab. They are also doing good pulse oximeter tests at the finger, and temperature tests, which is at least something, but only when it's too late already. PCR tests find infections 2 days earlier. My guess is the whole CDC procedures are flawed countrywide. The written CDC guidelines favor NP over OP (mouth) over Anterior nares. International guidelines only recommend NP swabs, nothing else. Maybe they don't dare to hurt the US snowflakes with the NP swabs, so that testing is at least somewhat accepted.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    Every single person I know who has gotten tested (in Michigan) has had the NP swab.
scoutt 6y ago
Are 1/3 of children showing symptoms? That's terrible. Edit: Sorry. I misintepreted parent comment.

cwhiz 6y ago

What do you think The Hill should have done here? The Hill reported on the data provided by the state of Florida. Here is the direct report that the article is based on: http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_ar... Do you think The Hill should have attempted to apologize for the data with hearsay about the numbers? Or should they just report the facts as they are given and leave it up to the state of Florida to clean up their mess?

jdminhbg 6y ago
I realize it's hard work, but yes, if numbers are in dispute, it's the job of the media to provide context as to why.
- cwhiz 6y ago
  If there is some particular hard evidence that the numbers in the article are incorrect I would expect The Hill to report that. As far as I know it is just hearsay, and that's not news. I would not expect The Hill to try and apologize for the official reported numbers. Florida should do a better job.
  - jdminhbg 6y ago
    The hard evidence is in the post you're replying to: > FORT MYERS, Fla. – The Florida Department of Health in its daily COVID-19 report lists multiple laboratories throughout the state – many of them small testing sites – with 100% positivity rates, but Southwest Florida's dominant hospital system said Wednesday it is incorrect to say 100% of their labs are positive. > The Lee Health hospital system is reporting that its laboratory testing of potential COVID-19 cases has shown an overall positivity rate of about 18%, despite the state report showing that all people coming in for testing at some of its labs have the novel coronavirus.
_jal 6y ago
The Hill should note the history of the "debate" about the numbers, including the facts we do know about state interference with the data. Why should the state's numbers be privileged when we know the state is being flatly Politburo about them?