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>They could be one of the biggest solar players in the world And what would they do with that? They can't package solar-harvested energy and export it to China
by macspoofing 6y ago
>They could be one of the biggest solar players in the world
And what would they do with that? They can't package solar-harvested energy and export it to China. They can provide regional power during daytime - but probably for more money than oil/gas ... and they will still need to rely on oil/gas for base-load, mornings, evenings and night-time.
- teraku 6y agoAgree with your premise of not being able to ship it cheaply, but base-load does not exist for 10+ years anymore in most modern energy grids (at least not the way described by people who are saying we are badly reliant on fossils). And if you have this much space, at least for domestic energy, power storages would suffice for the night/non-sun periods.
- gbasin 6y agoIt's tough today but there are paths to solutions. E.g. hydrogen storage If it was easy, there would be no debate, and probably no opportunity.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> They can't package solar-harvested energy and export it to China Yes, they can. Bulk industrial chemicals are portable and extremely energy intensive [1]. [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/industry.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/industry.p...
- adrianN 6y agoThere was this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec and you can also store large amounts of energy in hydrogen or methane produced from electricity.
- eloff 6y ago> They can't package solar-harvested energy and export it to China Essentially that's what aluminum refining from bauxite does. It's also not impossible to build long distance transmission lines that far, but that's a big infrastructure project across an unstable region and the highest mountain range on earth.
- ariwilson 6y agoI've never heard of this as a viable economic way of storing solar power. Don't those aluminum forges have to run 24/7 and starting/stopping them is a huge pain in the ass?
- luma 6y agoI don't think they mean this as power storage, rather, shifting the location of power usage to the place where power prices could be ridiculously low. Smelting bauxite is an energy-intensive process. If you do it in China, you need to import the energy to do it. If you instead send bauxite to KSA they could use their cheap energy and send the resulting aluminum to China. It's not storing the energy, it's making energy storage and transport a redundant step.
- retrac 6y agoNot so much storing, as exploiting the locally-cheap energy. Canada for example, was and still is, a major destination for bauxite ore. There are large hydroelectric dams in Quebec dedicated specifically to aluminum smelting.
- eloff 6y agoYeah, it is a pain with all smelters currently in use. There is maybe an alternative deign that could change that. But the idea here is not to store the energy, but to export it as chemical energy via aluminum.
- pfdietz 6y agoThere's a lot of money to be made converting industrial processes to be usable with intermittent energy sources. https://www.aztlanchemicals.com/ https://www.aztlanchemicals.com/
- eloff 6y agoMaybe. You have a massive capital outlay, so it becomes a tradeoff between saving money on electricity by running only when it's below a certain price and running all the time. Usually electricity cost doesn't dominate the equation, so it makes sense to run 24/7 (or as close to that as you can get). Aluminium refining is different, but usually those plants buy dedicated electric capacity from a hydro station at special wholesale rates. It does not lend itself to starting and stopping.
- redisman 6y agoWhat does China have to do with it? If they can produce competitive solar energy I'm sure lots of middle east, europe and africa would buy up their watts. Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, Iran are all right next door.