5 ms·

But when was this? CSS grid has only really been viable for a few years in terms of significant browser support.

miiiiiike 6y ago
Last year. Around November and 91% unprefixed usage (https://caniuse.com/#search=display%3Agrid https://caniuse.com/#search=display%3Agrid)
- bigmanwalter 6y ago
  CSS Grid has only been widely supported for a couple years now. Not so hard to believe a frontend dev was still using bootstrap grid.
  - tr1coder 6y ago
    The inexcusable fact here is that he said that he didn't know how it works. A font-end developer not knowing grid is not worth 6 figures.
    - epicureanideal 6y ago
      I disagree, as both an engineer and a manager. CSS grid is only recently becoming a reasonable tool to use in practice. I don't think any of the top 1% of front end engineers I know would be able to use CSS grid without looking at the documentation. Based on experience, the kind of person who would be able to use it from memory either 1) is very skilled AND had a reason to use it recently, or 2) someone of medium skill who just recently read the spec but in almost all other ways is less skilled than the people I mentioned in the first paragraph.
      - tr1coder 6y ago
        That depends on your company I guess. If your entry salary is, or is close to 6 figures then yeah. But if you pay that only for skilled developers _specializing_ in front-end then it is not too much to ask that they are up-to-date with their field.
      - thirdsun 6y ago
        > I don't think any of the top 1% of front end engineers I know would be able to use CSS grid without looking at the documentation. You probably don't mean it that way, but not having to use the documentation surely isn't a requirement for competency. I resort to the docs all the time, even with topics I'm quite famialiar and experienced with.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    I agree. It's fairly common for experienced front end devs who have been bitten by browser incompatibilities in the past to wait several years to adopt the latest CSS techniques. The "old techniques" often work very well. Most likely if you had asked me "why flexbox and not CSS grid" I would have said "because flexbox is able to perfectly well support this use case, and I'd rather not introduce a dependency on a less well supported CSS feature unless I need to". I personally tend to prefer using the oldest (within reason) CSS feature that lets me accomplish a task. Or I'll pick the one that best conceptually maps to the task I'm trying to accomplish, if there's a significant difference.
    - bigmanwalter 6y ago
      I used to work like that but CSS Grid is actually amazing. Highly recommended.
- ibdf 6y ago
  Too bad you had a bad experience with your dev, but seriously, you just picked up css, people have been fighting it for years because of browser support. There's a reason why there are css reset stylesheets, and frameworks out there. If you are using it in one project great, but when you do it for living you will ended up building your own framework if you are not already using one. SASS also saves you so much time in development.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    Yes, one of the issues with people who've recently learned the 2020 version of JS/CSS/frameworkX is that they assume what they've learned is the correct way to do things according to "the best, latest standard". It's a variation of Dunning-Kruger almost. As you said, experienced engineers have been dealing with CSS browser support issues for years, so as a habit try to avoid using the latest shiny new features. Also, experienced engineers do refresh their knowledge from time to time, but you might have caught them between refreshes. Remember that these engineers are also working 40-60 hours per week producing work output in addition to periodically refreshing their skillset. And depending on the environment they've worked in previously they may not have had the ability to use the latest features of whatever technology. Maybe they were working on a legacy app that didn't support ES6, for example. That would be less common now in the days of Babel, but there was a time a few years ago when it would have been reasonable for a working JS engineer not to be familiar with every detail of ES6, as an example.

Last year. Around November and 91% unprefixed usage (https://caniuse.com/#search=display%3Agrid https://caniuse.com/#search=display%3Agrid)

bigmanwalter 6y ago
CSS Grid has only been widely supported for a couple years now. Not so hard to believe a frontend dev was still using bootstrap grid.
- tr1coder 6y ago
  The inexcusable fact here is that he said that he didn't know how it works. A font-end developer not knowing grid is not worth 6 figures.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    I disagree, as both an engineer and a manager. CSS grid is only recently becoming a reasonable tool to use in practice. I don't think any of the top 1% of front end engineers I know would be able to use CSS grid without looking at the documentation. Based on experience, the kind of person who would be able to use it from memory either 1) is very skilled AND had a reason to use it recently, or 2) someone of medium skill who just recently read the spec but in almost all other ways is less skilled than the people I mentioned in the first paragraph.
    - tr1coder 6y ago
      That depends on your company I guess. If your entry salary is, or is close to 6 figures then yeah. But if you pay that only for skilled developers _specializing_ in front-end then it is not too much to ask that they are up-to-date with their field.
    - thirdsun 6y ago
      > I don't think any of the top 1% of front end engineers I know would be able to use CSS grid without looking at the documentation. You probably don't mean it that way, but not having to use the documentation surely isn't a requirement for competency. I resort to the docs all the time, even with topics I'm quite famialiar and experienced with.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  I agree. It's fairly common for experienced front end devs who have been bitten by browser incompatibilities in the past to wait several years to adopt the latest CSS techniques. The "old techniques" often work very well. Most likely if you had asked me "why flexbox and not CSS grid" I would have said "because flexbox is able to perfectly well support this use case, and I'd rather not introduce a dependency on a less well supported CSS feature unless I need to". I personally tend to prefer using the oldest (within reason) CSS feature that lets me accomplish a task. Or I'll pick the one that best conceptually maps to the task I'm trying to accomplish, if there's a significant difference.
  - bigmanwalter 6y ago
    I used to work like that but CSS Grid is actually amazing. Highly recommended.
ibdf 6y ago
Too bad you had a bad experience with your dev, but seriously, you just picked up css, people have been fighting it for years because of browser support. There's a reason why there are css reset stylesheets, and frameworks out there. If you are using it in one project great, but when you do it for living you will ended up building your own framework if you are not already using one. SASS also saves you so much time in development.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  Yes, one of the issues with people who've recently learned the 2020 version of JS/CSS/frameworkX is that they assume what they've learned is the correct way to do things according to "the best, latest standard". It's a variation of Dunning-Kruger almost. As you said, experienced engineers have been dealing with CSS browser support issues for years, so as a habit try to avoid using the latest shiny new features. Also, experienced engineers do refresh their knowledge from time to time, but you might have caught them between refreshes. Remember that these engineers are also working 40-60 hours per week producing work output in addition to periodically refreshing their skillset. And depending on the environment they've worked in previously they may not have had the ability to use the latest features of whatever technology. Maybe they were working on a legacy app that didn't support ES6, for example. That would be less common now in the days of Babel, but there was a time a few years ago when it would have been reasonable for a working JS engineer not to be familiar with every detail of ES6, as an example.