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What's really happening is that these rioters (not the protestors) are watched trying to instigate violence at the protests and when they leave the area, they g

What's really happening is that these rioters (not the protestors) are watched trying to instigate violence at the protests and when they leave the area, they get arrested. This is because the local government has been absolutely useless at doing their job at stopping the rioting. Start at 9:30 timestamp: https://youtu.be/3ptD6koTknw?t=570 https://youtu.be/3ptD6koTknw?t=570 People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. https://youtu.be/ha-7SETmJD4 https://youtu.be/ha-7SETmJD4 Also they are not unidentified. They have Police on their chest. There's also a theory (can't confirm this) that these are undercover operatives being extracted as they have been infiltrated Antifa.

deleted 6y ago
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ModernMech 6y ago
Fta: “interviews conducted by OPB show officers are also detaining people on Portland streets who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity. Demonstrators like O’Shea and Pettibone said they think they were targeted by federal officers for simply wearing black clothing in the area of the demonstration.“
- blisseyGo 6y ago
  > who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity That's misleading. They are being recorded while they are being violent within the peaceful protests. They are being arrested when they leave because Feds don't want to disrupt the peaceful protests - so they arrest them when they leave the area. I have watched a few videos of this happening and all of them have the person in not just all black but also with a helmet, tools to break windows and baseball bats. Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618 https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618
  - d3nj4l 6y ago
    How do you know the videos you've watched (and you've only posted one) are representative of every arrest? The OPB has interviewed protestors to find out, and they're a reputable, local news organisation. Why should anybody take your word for it over theirs?
  - fredophile 6y ago
    Do you have links to those videos? The link you provided doesn't show any indication that the person being detained committed a crime.
xxpor 6y ago
Even if I agree with your assessment, none of this excuses using unmarked vehicles, unmarked uniforms and not explaining themselves.
- mtgp1000 6y ago
  At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights. This is a literally subversive movement. I'm not exaggerating or choosing a side. Watch the livestreams yourself - these people explicitly seek to subvert, dismantle, and replace modern "power structures" (intentionally left vague). Whether you agree with what these people think they're fighting for, the system has safeguards against such insurrection.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    Give me a break. These aren't the Bolsheviks fighting the white army. The dude in the video was never told where he was or why he was arrested. He didn't know he was in the federal courthouse until after he was released. These guys don't even have badges ffs. If someone shot these guys, I don't see how that wouldn't be considered self-defense. Let's see what DHS is complaining about: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co... A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks. Real insurrection. Raise the army. Prepare the nukes.
    - blisseyGo 6y ago
      > A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks. Those are federal property and feds have full rights to do this. Also a lot of people who are being arrested are from another state. That's been the case for at least 45 days now. There's a point where the feds have to step in since the local people in that area are being terrorized. I have friends in that area and they are all planing to move out of the city because the Mayor, DA and Governor have been useless for a long time.
      - 6y ago
jwilber 6y ago
You say, “what’s really happening” and then follow up with generalizing all local governments as the same and all protestors as rioters, so I’ll assume your post isn’t very sincere. But I’d like a sincere response: What difference does it make what they did if they were apprehended by unidentifiable officers? That’s the topic at hand - the fact that police are apprehending people in ways that are not identifiably different from kidnappings.
- blisseyGo 6y ago
  > all protestors as rioters That's not what I meant when I said: rioters (not the protestors) I meant to say that a few violent people are sneaking into the protestors. By "not the protestors", I meant "I am not referring to the protestors". By local government, I meant the mayor, the governor and the DA. Portland, Chicago has been this way for a long time.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    You still haven’t responded to the strongest part of the argument here: I’m what ways do you believe any of this justifies kidnapping people?
    - blisseyGo 6y ago
      Kidnapping? Really? The officers have POLICE on their chest in big letters. People getting arrested have helmets, bats and window breaking tools on. They aren't "protestors". They are preventing peaceful protestors. Also there's some claims of some of them being undercover agents who have infiltrated Antifa though I am not sure if that can be confirmed.
      - jwilber 6y ago
        You claim, “People getting arrested have helmets...” and that, “They aren’t protestors.” - here’s a video of a peaceful protestor getting taken in an unmarked vehicle [0]. Sadly, plenty more exist of similar conduct. But two responses later and you’ve still ignored the question: what difference does it make what they’ve done - why defend unmarked police? I’ve taken the time to show evidence that it’s occurred, it’d be nice if you reciprocated some effort. [0]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2020-06-06/video-showing-san-diego-police-arresting-rushing-protester-into-unmarked-van-raises-concerns%3f_amp=true https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne...
gruez 6y ago
>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.
- blisseyGo 6y ago
  Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618 https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618
  - fredophile 6y ago
    Maybe he's worried the peaceful protest will get less peaceful. There could be agitators sneaking into the crowd to stir things up. Counter protests by people with firearms. Cops shooting protesters with rubber bullets. Those all seem like plausible scenarios to me. I couldn't identify what he had on his left side from that video. How did you come to the conclusion it was meant to break windows?
  - dfraser992 6y ago
    And that's the video were the whole incident seems suspicious - see my comment. An undercover op would logically have equipment for stirring up trouble / doing damage if part of his remit was to be a "fifth columnist". Yeah, that is how much I trust American authorities in general, especially the right wing nutjobs taking over now.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Uh, the thugs doing the kidnapping also have helmets on so that indicates nothing whatsoever. And the only "thing" I can see looks like a regular carabiner.
    - 6y ago
fzeroracer 6y ago
None of what you said matters and here's why. It doesn't matter who they're arresting and for what reason. They should announce who they are, using marked vehicles and properly arrest them if they have actually committed a crime. Because otherwise, what's stopping someone from dressing up in military garb and straight up abducting someone? How do you know they're even part of the federal law enforcement and not actually someone taking advantage of the situation to commit crimes as well?
- MengerSponge 6y ago
  There wasn't much time between channers "joking" about driving into protest crowds and Heather Heyer's murder. These auth-right goons have been "joking" about dropping people out of helicopters for years.
- dfraser992 6y ago
  Exactly. If the "authorities" had any integrity, they'd be following the "process" and that would give them at least a fig leaf of legitimacy. Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but looking at these growing comments, I think there is a brigade going on to influence the discussion.
  - growlix 6y ago
    Yup. Post got flagged too. I assume because it's "political", but in my experience HN is very interested in civil liberties.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ModernMech 6y ago

Fta: “interviews conducted by OPB show officers are also detaining people on Portland streets who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity. Demonstrators like O’Shea and Pettibone said they think they were targeted by federal officers for simply wearing black clothing in the area of the demonstration.“

blisseyGo 6y ago
> who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity That's misleading. They are being recorded while they are being violent within the peaceful protests. They are being arrested when they leave because Feds don't want to disrupt the peaceful protests - so they arrest them when they leave the area. I have watched a few videos of this happening and all of them have the person in not just all black but also with a helmet, tools to break windows and baseball bats. Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618 https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  How do you know the videos you've watched (and you've only posted one) are representative of every arrest? The OPB has interviewed protestors to find out, and they're a reputable, local news organisation. Why should anybody take your word for it over theirs?
- fredophile 6y ago
  Do you have links to those videos? The link you provided doesn't show any indication that the person being detained committed a crime.

xxpor 6y ago

Even if I agree with your assessment, none of this excuses using unmarked vehicles, unmarked uniforms and not explaining themselves.

mtgp1000 6y ago
At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights. This is a literally subversive movement. I'm not exaggerating or choosing a side. Watch the livestreams yourself - these people explicitly seek to subvert, dismantle, and replace modern "power structures" (intentionally left vague). Whether you agree with what these people think they're fighting for, the system has safeguards against such insurrection.
- xxpor 6y ago
  Give me a break. These aren't the Bolsheviks fighting the white army. The dude in the video was never told where he was or why he was arrested. He didn't know he was in the federal courthouse until after he was released. These guys don't even have badges ffs. If someone shot these guys, I don't see how that wouldn't be considered self-defense. Let's see what DHS is complaining about: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-condemns-rampant-long-lasting-violence-portland https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co... A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks. Real insurrection. Raise the army. Prepare the nukes.
  - blisseyGo 6y ago
    > A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks. Those are federal property and feds have full rights to do this. Also a lot of people who are being arrested are from another state. That's been the case for at least 45 days now. There's a point where the feds have to step in since the local people in that area are being terrorized. I have friends in that area and they are all planing to move out of the city because the Mayor, DA and Governor have been useless for a long time.
    - 6y ago

jwilber 6y ago

You say, “what’s really happening” and then follow up with generalizing all local governments as the same and all protestors as rioters, so I’ll assume your post isn’t very sincere. But I’d like a sincere response: What difference does it make what they did if they were apprehended by unidentifiable officers? That’s the topic at hand - the fact that police are apprehending people in ways that are not identifiably different from kidnappings.

blisseyGo 6y ago
> all protestors as rioters That's not what I meant when I said: rioters (not the protestors) I meant to say that a few violent people are sneaking into the protestors. By "not the protestors", I meant "I am not referring to the protestors". By local government, I meant the mayor, the governor and the DA. Portland, Chicago has been this way for a long time.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  You still haven’t responded to the strongest part of the argument here: I’m what ways do you believe any of this justifies kidnapping people?
  - blisseyGo 6y ago
    Kidnapping? Really? The officers have POLICE on their chest in big letters. People getting arrested have helmets, bats and window breaking tools on. They aren't "protestors". They are preventing peaceful protestors. Also there's some claims of some of them being undercover agents who have infiltrated Antifa though I am not sure if that can be confirmed.
    - jwilber 6y ago
      You claim, “People getting arrested have helmets...” and that, “They aren’t protestors.” - here’s a video of a peaceful protestor getting taken in an unmarked vehicle [0]. Sadly, plenty more exist of similar conduct. But two responses later and you’ve still ignored the question: what difference does it make what they’ve done - why defend unmarked police? I’ve taken the time to show evidence that it’s occurred, it’d be nice if you reciprocated some effort. [0]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2020-06-06/video-showing-san-diego-police-arresting-rushing-protester-into-unmarked-van-raises-concerns%3f_amp=true https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne...

gruez 6y ago

>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests. I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.

blisseyGo 6y ago
Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618 https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618
- fredophile 6y ago
  Maybe he's worried the peaceful protest will get less peaceful. There could be agitators sneaking into the crowd to stir things up. Counter protests by people with firearms. Cops shooting protesters with rubber bullets. Those all seem like plausible scenarios to me. I couldn't identify what he had on his left side from that video. How did you come to the conclusion it was meant to break windows?
- dfraser992 6y ago
  And that's the video were the whole incident seems suspicious - see my comment. An undercover op would logically have equipment for stirring up trouble / doing damage if part of his remit was to be a "fifth columnist". Yeah, that is how much I trust American authorities in general, especially the right wing nutjobs taking over now.
- mindslight 6y ago
  Uh, the thugs doing the kidnapping also have helmets on so that indicates nothing whatsoever. And the only "thing" I can see looks like a regular carabiner.
  - 6y ago

fzeroracer 6y ago

None of what you said matters and here's why. It doesn't matter who they're arresting and for what reason. They should announce who they are, using marked vehicles and properly arrest them if they have actually committed a crime. Because otherwise, what's stopping someone from dressing up in military garb and straight up abducting someone? How do you know they're even part of the federal law enforcement and not actually someone taking advantage of the situation to commit crimes as well?

MengerSponge 6y ago
There wasn't much time between channers "joking" about driving into protest crowds and Heather Heyer's murder. These auth-right goons have been "joking" about dropping people out of helicopters for years.
dfraser992 6y ago
Exactly. If the "authorities" had any integrity, they'd be following the "process" and that would give them at least a fig leaf of legitimacy. Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but looking at these growing comments, I think there is a brigade going on to influence the discussion.
- growlix 6y ago
  Yup. Post got flagged too. I assume because it's "political", but in my experience HN is very interested in civil liberties.