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Many of these UI changes seem like backward steps. https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07/compose-comparison.png https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07

Many of these UI changes seem like backward steps. https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07/compose-comparison.png https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07/compose-compariso... Old: Clear that you can enter multiple "To" addresses. Obvious that the formatting buttons are buttons. New: Single-line "to" implies you can only enter one address. "Flat" buttons don't look like buttons. https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07/account-setup.png https://blog.thunderbird.net/files/2020/07/account-setup.png Extra white space makes the window nearly twice the size for no apparent reason. I wouldn't say the new one is any clearer. Maybe even less clear, since the grey textual tips next to the fields have gone.

ronjouch 6y ago
Agreed about the flat buttons sadly following the OS-cohesiveness-hindering flatness fad instead of adhering to standard OS styling which can be recognized across apps by users. Disagreed about the To/Cc redesign, the new design is much more efficient when you have multiple recipients, making good use of horizontal space. The old design did lead to: 1. Tons of wasted horizontal space (as each line is a recipient, on each line you only use the few characters describing each recipient, leaving space on the right blank). And also, one-line-per-recipient leads to tedious vertical scrolling inside a vertically-constrained space (3 lines by default, and you don't want more, you want to preserve vertical space for the email body, not the header). 2. Impossibility to easily copy/paste all recipients. With the new design, it's now easy: select all, copy (and repeat once if you have a Cc field, okay). There's a reason this To/Cc design is what most (all?) desktop/mobile clients do.
- 9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
  At least in the Mail.app on macOS, clear buttons are still used in the toolbar and the window bar when you compose a new message. I definitely think theres new thunderbird buttons are both a downgrade in terms of usability, but also because, aesthetically, I think they look way worse. The icon design is really quite bad. The "A" char is poorly rendered, the stroke width and proportions seem to be all over the place, and the italics "A" looks particularly bad.
addicted 6y ago
Not a fan of the flat buttons but I strongly disagree about the single/multi line TO situation. I doubt there will be a single person for whom Thunderbird is their first email/messaging type app. Most would have used something on their iOS or Android devices first at least. All of them will be comfortable with multiple users in a single To line, while having multiple lines for multiple users will actually appear alien to them.
- waheoo 6y ago
  Perpetuating bad UX choices (or at least trade offs made under the mobile constraint) from mobile into the desktop doesn't help anyone. I use thunderbird because I want an email client, not a dumbed down web experience built for mobile.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Who said it's a difference made under mobile constraints? I've literally never used a mail client that didn't do multiple emails on the same line. On Desktop or Mobile. And it's never been an issue.
    - atq2119 6y ago
      I've had issues editing email addresses in clients with multiple mails per line. As long as everybody is on your address book it's fine, but if they're not, things tend to get awry. I haven't tried the new Thunderbird, but I am suspicious of this change as well.
      - IgniteTheSun 6y ago
        "I've had issues editing email addresses in clients with multiple mails per line." This was my first reaction when I saw the change - I really hope they get this right as it goes to the core functionality of Thunderbird. If email addresses can't be easily and accurately edited in the To field, it will be a real problem for me.
      - 6y ago
lower 6y ago
The old To/Cc design was really bad. If you have more than three addresses, then these three lines scroll. The only indication that there are more than three addresses is a tiny scrollbar all the way to the right. I recently sent an e-mail to more people than intended when editing an old message as new, because it had more To-addresses that weren't visible and I didn't notice the scrollbar. I'm very happy that it's being updated.
- zelphirkalt 6y ago
  Now it needs some visual indication of a complete e-mail address in the To: line. Like a rounded rectangle 1px border around a complete e-mail address and some kind of hint, that you can enter more than one address.
  - ronjouch 6y ago
    There is a visual indication of a complete email addresses: each correct/complete email address is wrapped in a "pill", a light gray one (see OP screenshot). An incomplete email will similarly get wrapped into a dark red pill. Your comment maybe indicates the gray is too subtle, or invisible to users with bad eyesight.
    - zelphirkalt 6y ago
      You are correct! Somehow I did not see that detail. Good that they thought of this.
- SiempreViernes 6y ago
  The worst bit is that you can't even expand that part of the window to see more addresses at once! Need to include the whole team on this mail? Prepare to squint...
- sabas_ge 6y ago
  Seems like we won't need MRC Compose anymore?
canada_dry 6y ago
> "Flat" buttons don't look like buttons Glad at least they've kept the (albeit small) separators between the buttons. I immensely dislike the UI trend where everything is flat so there's no discernible separation between elements.
userbinator 6y ago
Extra white space makes the window nearly twice the size for no apparent reason. The old window was twice as big as it needs to be too, but I agree the new one is even worse. I don't like the flat buttons either. I don't use macOS much, but the old ones with a subtle border look like they're native UI, whereas the new flat ones don't. A random image I found confirms that the old buttons and checkbox look the same as what the OS itself uses, while the new ones look very out-of-place: https://i.stack.imgur.com/5ACES.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/5ACES.png
- Kliment 6y ago
  The point of the huge window is that you have multiple steps and the window is sized for the largest one so it doesn't resize between steps. I'm also unhappy about the extra space but the window being larger than its contents makes sense here.
kristopolous 6y ago
Have you considered the SeaMonkey mail reader? It may be to your liking. I know a few who swear by it
_sbrk 6y ago
"The compose window now also takes up less space with recipients listed in “pills” instead of an entire line for every address.." Yup, already hate it. I much prefer not looking through a list of buttons on the To line for the one I want to remove. Additionally, I can instantly see if I'm sending and email to my coworkers company or personal address without some damn tag after his name.

ronjouch 6y ago

Agreed about the flat buttons sadly following the OS-cohesiveness-hindering flatness fad instead of adhering to standard OS styling which can be recognized across apps by users. Disagreed about the To/Cc redesign, the new design is much more efficient when you have multiple recipients, making good use of horizontal space. The old design did lead to: 1. Tons of wasted horizontal space (as each line is a recipient, on each line you only use the few characters describing each recipient, leaving space on the right blank). And also, one-line-per-recipient leads to tedious vertical scrolling inside a vertically-constrained space (3 lines by default, and you don't want more, you want to preserve vertical space for the email body, not the header). 2. Impossibility to easily copy/paste all recipients. With the new design, it's now easy: select all, copy (and repeat once if you have a Cc field, okay). There's a reason this To/Cc design is what most (all?) desktop/mobile clients do.

9935c101ab17a66 6y ago
At least in the Mail.app on macOS, clear buttons are still used in the toolbar and the window bar when you compose a new message. I definitely think theres new thunderbird buttons are both a downgrade in terms of usability, but also because, aesthetically, I think they look way worse. The icon design is really quite bad. The "A" char is poorly rendered, the stroke width and proportions seem to be all over the place, and the italics "A" looks particularly bad.

addicted 6y ago

Not a fan of the flat buttons but I strongly disagree about the single/multi line TO situation. I doubt there will be a single person for whom Thunderbird is their first email/messaging type app. Most would have used something on their iOS or Android devices first at least. All of them will be comfortable with multiple users in a single To line, while having multiple lines for multiple users will actually appear alien to them.

waheoo 6y ago
Perpetuating bad UX choices (or at least trade offs made under the mobile constraint) from mobile into the desktop doesn't help anyone. I use thunderbird because I want an email client, not a dumbed down web experience built for mobile.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Who said it's a difference made under mobile constraints? I've literally never used a mail client that didn't do multiple emails on the same line. On Desktop or Mobile. And it's never been an issue.
  - atq2119 6y ago
    I've had issues editing email addresses in clients with multiple mails per line. As long as everybody is on your address book it's fine, but if they're not, things tend to get awry. I haven't tried the new Thunderbird, but I am suspicious of this change as well.
    - IgniteTheSun 6y ago
      "I've had issues editing email addresses in clients with multiple mails per line." This was my first reaction when I saw the change - I really hope they get this right as it goes to the core functionality of Thunderbird. If email addresses can't be easily and accurately edited in the To field, it will be a real problem for me.
    - 6y ago

lower 6y ago

The old To/Cc design was really bad. If you have more than three addresses, then these three lines scroll. The only indication that there are more than three addresses is a tiny scrollbar all the way to the right. I recently sent an e-mail to more people than intended when editing an old message as new, because it had more To-addresses that weren't visible and I didn't notice the scrollbar. I'm very happy that it's being updated.

zelphirkalt 6y ago
Now it needs some visual indication of a complete e-mail address in the To: line. Like a rounded rectangle 1px border around a complete e-mail address and some kind of hint, that you can enter more than one address.
- ronjouch 6y ago
  There is a visual indication of a complete email addresses: each correct/complete email address is wrapped in a "pill", a light gray one (see OP screenshot). An incomplete email will similarly get wrapped into a dark red pill. Your comment maybe indicates the gray is too subtle, or invisible to users with bad eyesight.
  - zelphirkalt 6y ago
    You are correct! Somehow I did not see that detail. Good that they thought of this.
SiempreViernes 6y ago
The worst bit is that you can't even expand that part of the window to see more addresses at once! Need to include the whole team on this mail? Prepare to squint...
sabas_ge 6y ago
Seems like we won't need MRC Compose anymore?

canada_dry 6y ago

> "Flat" buttons don't look like buttons Glad at least they've kept the (albeit small) separators between the buttons. I immensely dislike the UI trend where everything is flat so there's no discernible separation between elements.

userbinator 6y ago

Extra white space makes the window nearly twice the size for no apparent reason. The old window was twice as big as it needs to be too, but I agree the new one is even worse. I don't like the flat buttons either. I don't use macOS much, but the old ones with a subtle border look like they're native UI, whereas the new flat ones don't. A random image I found confirms that the old buttons and checkbox look the same as what the OS itself uses, while the new ones look very out-of-place: https://i.stack.imgur.com/5ACES.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/5ACES.png

Kliment 6y ago
The point of the huge window is that you have multiple steps and the window is sized for the largest one so it doesn't resize between steps. I'm also unhappy about the extra space but the window being larger than its contents makes sense here.

kristopolous 6y ago

Have you considered the SeaMonkey mail reader? It may be to your liking. I know a few who swear by it

_sbrk 6y ago

"The compose window now also takes up less space with recipients listed in “pills” instead of an entire line for every address.." Yup, already hate it. I much prefer not looking through a list of buttons on the To line for the one I want to remove. Additionally, I can instantly see if I'm sending and email to my coworkers company or personal address without some damn tag after his name.