5 ms·

I wonder if there will be a Cunard-like airline that flies older planes because people want to experience them. I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates th

I wonder if there will be a Cunard-like airline that flies older planes because people want to experience them. I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via traditional Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure if it makes money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other cruise ships or by QM2 cruising herself. It'd be cool to have a flight from Heathrow to JFK (?) on one 747 for people who want to experience the same plane. I think an airline enthusiast might go several times a year, and there's a goodly number of airline enthusiasts. I think a flying boat tour of the Pacific islands would be a wicked honeymoon!

VectorLock 6y ago
If this existed for the Concorde, I'd get on it.
- noah_buddy 6y ago
  It would be expensive. A cross Atlantic trip in the early 2000s was around $12000 round trip[0]. [0] https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-concorde-6783087/ https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-conc...
  - VectorLock 6y ago
    Sadly, if I had it in the early 2000s I would have done it, but now that I have it I can't.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Terrible for the environment too.
  - easytiger 6y ago
    You can easily pay $10000+ for first class as it stands on the same route today
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      That‘s because it turned out that the range of the Concorde made it so that a 3-hour supersonic bus ride was competing with a 6-hour flight that was a meal service and then a sleep in a lie flat bed.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  At $12k for what would be a Concorde flight, you might as well pay $17k for a supersonic ride on a MiG-29 once Migflug has them again.
  - myself248 6y ago
    If we're tossing out pie-in-the-sky dreams of retired airplanes we'd pay a lot of hypothetical money to fly on just once, and if military planes are fair game... ...there's simply no competition for the Blackbird.
    - dTal 6y ago
      Sure there is. I'd go for an XB-70 Valkyrie. Nearly as fast, and a hell of a lot roomier.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      I'm not sure about the Blackbird specifically, but I've been a few times to the Duxford air show and they always have sign-ups for 'long-retired military plane experience flights'. (And I could be wrong but I don't think it's Duxford-specific - seems like they're companies/organisations that do the rounds of similar air shows here & in North America at least.)
    - m4rtink 6y ago
      A-12 ? ;-)
      - myself248 6y ago
        The A-12 and SR-71 are both considered Blackbirds. But the A-12 is a single-seater; only the trainer variants had a second sorta wedged in there. Yes, I know it's faster. Yes, that makes it cooler. But even in this flight of fancy, I don't imagine myself skilled enough to pilot an A-12 solo.
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      Not quite the same, but you can buy a Starfighter.
lmm 6y ago
> I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via traditional Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure if it makes money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other cruise ships or by QM2 cruising herself. I doubt it's subsidized, given how expensive it is. I'm not sure what distinction you're drawing between "cruise ship" and "ocean liner" - I guess in theory the QM2 runs to a timetable while cruise ships run to ad-hoc charter schedules, but in practice those cruise schedules are set years in advance and that timetable can be changed on fairly short notice. When I looked into a round-the-world trip it didn't seem like e.g. Vancouver-Hawaii was going to be any harder than NY-Southampton - in both cases you look at the schedule and book your trip months in advance. The QM2 is a luxury service but it's not just for enthusiasts - there are plenty of people who can't or don't want to fly, and are willing to pay the price.
- yingw787 6y ago
  Oh there's significant structural differences between cruise ships and ocean liners. Ocean liner's bow is strengthened for travel in adverse seas, and the stern is cupped rather than box-shaped to reduce roll. The superstructure is tapered for better balance, and the engines are optimized for power / speed moreso than vibration / comfort. They're more expensive than cruise ships as a result. See: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ocean-liner-and-vs-cruise-ship/ https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ocean-l...
  - lmm 6y ago
    Then presumably those ships doing Vancouver-Hawaii are "ocean liners" in that sense, and the QM2 is by no means "the last running ocean liner on Earth"?
    - mmphosis 6y ago
      With the exception of RMS Queen Mary 2 (Cunard Line: 2004-present), the ocean liner is nearly extinct. https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-transatlantic-ocean-liners-1691853406 https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-transatlan...
greggman3 6y ago
I don't know if it's still around but there was a company that ran dinner flights on DC3s in Los Angeles for nostalgia. Actually, googling "DC3 flights" brings up a few companies in different parts of the world.
- brnt 6y ago
  I imagine those are at least an order of magnitude cheaper to operate/maintain. Still, pretty cool place for a dinner party.
eric4smith 6y ago
What's going to happen is that these aircraft will be modified for cargo. The 747 is already one of the world's cargo workhorses.
- gsnedders 6y ago
  No 747 has been converted in a few years at the moment and many of those which have been converted have largely been parked up; there's plenty of other aircraft available on the market for the same money that are much cheaper to operate. What demand there is for new 747Fs has largely been met by sales of existing freighters or new-build 747-8Fs.
notahacker 6y ago
You can still get long haul flights on 747s, and the Air China ones will probably be around for years. I've worked in commercial aviation for long enough not to underestimate the size of the aviation enthusiast market, but still doubt they'd want multiple flights a year on what is, apart from the upper deck, a pretty ordinary widebody. Ancient cruise ships are easier to levy massive charges for because they're a multi-day experience benchmarked against already expensive cruises, and it's not like aircraft are easier or cheaper to keep running. The only way you'd keep retro aircraft open as a regular scheduled flight for enthusiasts would be if it mainly served normal passengers, like the ancient 707s that used to operate Iranian domestic routes due to lack of competition and difficulty of obtaining modern aircraft spares under the sanctions regime. Some people went to Iran just to fly on them, but not that many. The flying boat tour would be great fun for any suitably enthusiastic millionaire though. :D

VectorLock 6y ago

If this existed for the Concorde, I'd get on it.

noah_buddy 6y ago
It would be expensive. A cross Atlantic trip in the early 2000s was around $12000 round trip[0]. [0] https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-concorde-6783087/ https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/my-ride-on-the-conc...
- VectorLock 6y ago
  Sadly, if I had it in the early 2000s I would have done it, but now that I have it I can't.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Terrible for the environment too.
- easytiger 6y ago
  You can easily pay $10000+ for first class as it stands on the same route today
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    That‘s because it turned out that the range of the Concorde made it so that a 3-hour supersonic bus ride was competing with a 6-hour flight that was a meal service and then a sleep in a lie flat bed.
dehrmann 6y ago
At $12k for what would be a Concorde flight, you might as well pay $17k for a supersonic ride on a MiG-29 once Migflug has them again.
- myself248 6y ago
  If we're tossing out pie-in-the-sky dreams of retired airplanes we'd pay a lot of hypothetical money to fly on just once, and if military planes are fair game... ...there's simply no competition for the Blackbird.
  - dTal 6y ago
    Sure there is. I'd go for an XB-70 Valkyrie. Nearly as fast, and a hell of a lot roomier.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    I'm not sure about the Blackbird specifically, but I've been a few times to the Duxford air show and they always have sign-ups for 'long-retired military plane experience flights'. (And I could be wrong but I don't think it's Duxford-specific - seems like they're companies/organisations that do the rounds of similar air shows here & in North America at least.)
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    A-12 ? ;-)
    - myself248 6y ago
      The A-12 and SR-71 are both considered Blackbirds. But the A-12 is a single-seater; only the trainer variants had a second sorta wedged in there. Yes, I know it's faster. Yes, that makes it cooler. But even in this flight of fancy, I don't imagine myself skilled enough to pilot an A-12 solo.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    Not quite the same, but you can buy a Starfighter.

lmm 6y ago

> I believe Cunard (part of Carnival) operates the Queen Mary 2, the last running ocean liner on Earth. It does Southampton to New York via traditional Atlantic crossing, just like the Titanic (almost) did. Not sure if it makes money, but (pre-pandemic) it was likely subsidized by other cruise ships or by QM2 cruising herself. I doubt it's subsidized, given how expensive it is. I'm not sure what distinction you're drawing between "cruise ship" and "ocean liner" - I guess in theory the QM2 runs to a timetable while cruise ships run to ad-hoc charter schedules, but in practice those cruise schedules are set years in advance and that timetable can be changed on fairly short notice. When I looked into a round-the-world trip it didn't seem like e.g. Vancouver-Hawaii was going to be any harder than NY-Southampton - in both cases you look at the schedule and book your trip months in advance. The QM2 is a luxury service but it's not just for enthusiasts - there are plenty of people who can't or don't want to fly, and are willing to pay the price.

yingw787 6y ago
Oh there's significant structural differences between cruise ships and ocean liners. Ocean liner's bow is strengthened for travel in adverse seas, and the stern is cupped rather than box-shaped to reduce roll. The superstructure is tapered for better balance, and the engines are optimized for power / speed moreso than vibration / comfort. They're more expensive than cruise ships as a result. See: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ocean-liner-and-vs-cruise-ship/ https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-ocean-l...
- lmm 6y ago
  Then presumably those ships doing Vancouver-Hawaii are "ocean liners" in that sense, and the QM2 is by no means "the last running ocean liner on Earth"?
  - mmphosis 6y ago
    With the exception of RMS Queen Mary 2 (Cunard Line: 2004-present), the ocean liner is nearly extinct. https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-transatlantic-ocean-liners-1691853406 https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-last-surviving-transatlan...

greggman3 6y ago

I don't know if it's still around but there was a company that ran dinner flights on DC3s in Los Angeles for nostalgia. Actually, googling "DC3 flights" brings up a few companies in different parts of the world.

brnt 6y ago
I imagine those are at least an order of magnitude cheaper to operate/maintain. Still, pretty cool place for a dinner party.

eric4smith 6y ago

What's going to happen is that these aircraft will be modified for cargo. The 747 is already one of the world's cargo workhorses.

gsnedders 6y ago
No 747 has been converted in a few years at the moment and many of those which have been converted have largely been parked up; there's plenty of other aircraft available on the market for the same money that are much cheaper to operate. What demand there is for new 747Fs has largely been met by sales of existing freighters or new-build 747-8Fs.

notahacker 6y ago

You can still get long haul flights on 747s, and the Air China ones will probably be around for years. I've worked in commercial aviation for long enough not to underestimate the size of the aviation enthusiast market, but still doubt they'd want multiple flights a year on what is, apart from the upper deck, a pretty ordinary widebody. Ancient cruise ships are easier to levy massive charges for because they're a multi-day experience benchmarked against already expensive cruises, and it's not like aircraft are easier or cheaper to keep running. The only way you'd keep retro aircraft open as a regular scheduled flight for enthusiasts would be if it mainly served normal passengers, like the ancient 707s that used to operate Iranian domestic routes due to lack of competition and difficulty of obtaining modern aircraft spares under the sanctions regime. Some people went to Iran just to fly on them, but not that many. The flying boat tour would be great fun for any suitably enthusiastic millionaire though. :D