4 ms·

> They get paid like kings and mostly live like kings. Careful with present tense, things have taken a stark turn for the worse in terms of the day-to-day real

> They get paid like kings and mostly live like kings. Careful with present tense, things have taken a stark turn for the worse in terms of the day-to-day reality of western foreigners in China, and it already was not spectacular (minders checking in on your domicile every couple weeks or month, basically zero standing in legal disputes including routine contract disputes).

dirtyid 6y ago
TBH, these are exceedingly fringe scenarios that doesn't affect majority of expats living in China, i.e. certain motorcycle vloggers who got on the government shitlist. For the purpose of this article, if you're a sought after silicon engineer, you'll essentially have diplomatic immunity. China is going ham courting foreign talent in strategic field like 3x salary for entry level position, building churches for Korean silicon engineers. That said, things have recognizably declined for segments of expats in China in the last 10 years, Xi's policies is one component, but another driver is local elites have usurped expats at the top of the social hierarchy, plus you have a lot more bitter failed expats. Compared to 15-20 years ago when the expat population were almost exclusively professionals from multinationals instead of English teachers / losers back home. Sure, the fun, unregulated, drink with local corrupt official days are over. But if you're a professional who just want to enjoy a big paycheck and Chinese culture, you'll be fine. The company will take care of you.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Go lookup Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig. China isn't afraid to play nasty political football using imprisoned and tortured and unconnected westerners as pawns.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    I'm familiar. China arrests Canadian spies and (threatens) executes Canadian drug dealers in retaliation for Meng. Just like the Garrats after Su Bin, and Fujita employees after Senkaku. They're calibrated retaliation that separates diplomacy and business. China is a surveillance state that dismantled every CIA asset in the country 10 years ago. They're not arresting random people among the 100,000s expats in China. Plenty of guilty ones to pick. Don't be a spy in China and don't sell drugs. Or do if your country isn't in a diplomatic spat with China, you'll still get privileged legal recourse compared to locals. FVEY spies should leave GTFO of China, especially Canadians. China is still UNDER retaliating for Meng.
- teknologist 6y ago
  Silicon Valley pays way more than any good/known tech company in China, which is why their good engineers are all emigrating to work there and to other places where life is better. It's easy to romanticize tech in China from afar, but in reality it's like how it was in the 90's in the US and needs a lot of catch up. One issue that I'd highlight right away is that there seems to be a real lack of interest in the actual work; everything's done at breakneck speed for purely practical reasons and they wouldn't get very far without being able to copy/paste from github.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    >Catchup Hence throwing money at strategically important industries like semiconductors. The goal isn't to pay more the west in everything, but to enough premium attract the necessary talent to meet development objectives. Like attracting sufficient Chinese engineers from the valley to sea turtle back to bolster domestic innovation while locals spam derivative products until something competitive arises. At least data from the last few years shows it's drawing Taiwanese and Korean semi engineers. But semiconductors are very hard, like turbojet engines which China also has difficulties tackling, so who knows how well this strategy will work. Only that it's worked for everything else. >Chinese Tech It's not romanticization, I'm not in tech and I don't know what goes on method of cultural wise behind the scenes. I just know most everyday services I interact with when in China is ahead of the west, with exception of Google maps. Maybe the code is all duct taped from github, the workers are underpaid and overworked, but the experience is better from a consumer experience. So for me whatever is happening is sufficient, and breakneck speed for practice reasons might be the kind of consumer oriented process I prefer. Silicon Valley may poach most of the talent, and have the best pay, but they haven't made my life as convenient in comparison.

dirtyid 6y ago

TBH, these are exceedingly fringe scenarios that doesn't affect majority of expats living in China, i.e. certain motorcycle vloggers who got on the government shitlist. For the purpose of this article, if you're a sought after silicon engineer, you'll essentially have diplomatic immunity. China is going ham courting foreign talent in strategic field like 3x salary for entry level position, building churches for Korean silicon engineers. That said, things have recognizably declined for segments of expats in China in the last 10 years, Xi's policies is one component, but another driver is local elites have usurped expats at the top of the social hierarchy, plus you have a lot more bitter failed expats. Compared to 15-20 years ago when the expat population were almost exclusively professionals from multinationals instead of English teachers / losers back home. Sure, the fun, unregulated, drink with local corrupt official days are over. But if you're a professional who just want to enjoy a big paycheck and Chinese culture, you'll be fine. The company will take care of you.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
Go lookup Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig. China isn't afraid to play nasty political football using imprisoned and tortured and unconnected westerners as pawns.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  I'm familiar. China arrests Canadian spies and (threatens) executes Canadian drug dealers in retaliation for Meng. Just like the Garrats after Su Bin, and Fujita employees after Senkaku. They're calibrated retaliation that separates diplomacy and business. China is a surveillance state that dismantled every CIA asset in the country 10 years ago. They're not arresting random people among the 100,000s expats in China. Plenty of guilty ones to pick. Don't be a spy in China and don't sell drugs. Or do if your country isn't in a diplomatic spat with China, you'll still get privileged legal recourse compared to locals. FVEY spies should leave GTFO of China, especially Canadians. China is still UNDER retaliating for Meng.
teknologist 6y ago
Silicon Valley pays way more than any good/known tech company in China, which is why their good engineers are all emigrating to work there and to other places where life is better. It's easy to romanticize tech in China from afar, but in reality it's like how it was in the 90's in the US and needs a lot of catch up. One issue that I'd highlight right away is that there seems to be a real lack of interest in the actual work; everything's done at breakneck speed for purely practical reasons and they wouldn't get very far without being able to copy/paste from github.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  >Catchup Hence throwing money at strategically important industries like semiconductors. The goal isn't to pay more the west in everything, but to enough premium attract the necessary talent to meet development objectives. Like attracting sufficient Chinese engineers from the valley to sea turtle back to bolster domestic innovation while locals spam derivative products until something competitive arises. At least data from the last few years shows it's drawing Taiwanese and Korean semi engineers. But semiconductors are very hard, like turbojet engines which China also has difficulties tackling, so who knows how well this strategy will work. Only that it's worked for everything else. >Chinese Tech It's not romanticization, I'm not in tech and I don't know what goes on method of cultural wise behind the scenes. I just know most everyday services I interact with when in China is ahead of the west, with exception of Google maps. Maybe the code is all duct taped from github, the workers are underpaid and overworked, but the experience is better from a consumer experience. So for me whatever is happening is sufficient, and breakneck speed for practice reasons might be the kind of consumer oriented process I prefer. Silicon Valley may poach most of the talent, and have the best pay, but they haven't made my life as convenient in comparison.