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There's an important caveat, before everyone jumps on the title by itself: > The report, released Tuesday, defines “affordable” as spending no more than 30% of

There's an important caveat, before everyone jumps on the title by itself: > The report, released Tuesday, defines “affordable” as spending no more than 30% of monthly income on rent, in line with what most budgeting experts recommend. The second caveat is this is rent for a 2 bedroom apartment; though they do say that it's also ~95% of 1 bedroom apartments. No comment is made on studio apartments or having roommates. EDIT: The full report this article is based upon: https://reports.nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oor/OOR_BOOK_2020.pdf https://reports.nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oor/OOR_BOOK_2...

eikenberry 6y ago
> No comment is made on studio apartments or having roommates. To me this is the most telling part. When you are poor you need to have one or more roommates to afford housing and this is not new. What is wrong with roommates? I do think the US could use more small/studio apartment options for those who have a bit more money and prefer to live alone. I lived in a small studio once and enjoyed it, though I usually had roommates.
- dumbfoundded 6y ago
  It depends on what the goal should be. Having roommates is fun when you're 20 something. Not when you're trying to support a family.
  - eikenberry 6y ago
    Minimum wage is not designed to provide enough income to support a family. It it intended to prevent labor abuse.
    - worik 6y ago
      It really should be. Single people on the minimum wage would do very well. Maybe save? What is wrong with that?
      - dumbfoundded 6y ago
        The problem is the globalized economy. Ireland tax laws provide an example. Governments have little power over corporations as you can simply pick and choose which laws you want to operate under. Corporations have pushed governments to compete on favorable terms. Until governments unify basic tax and labor laws, these problems will continue.
    - dumbfoundded 6y ago
      Minimum wage is designed for whatever we choose it to be. The original intent is somewhat unclear as all it did was establish a wage floor. Debating what abuse means is a different matter.
    - Frost1x 6y ago
      It's interesting that our economy has so many positions compensating at a rate designed to prevent labor abuse.
      - eikenberry 6y ago
        Unintended consequences.
- II2II 6y ago
  One issue with roommates is that rental laws are rarely designed to accommodate for that situation. For example, if one person is unwilling or unable to pay the rent the other(s) have to make up the difference with no real recourse. If they don't, well, the landlord does have recourse (even if it is heavily regulated and burdensome). This is a particular problem for older people or people with limited social connections since the options are more limited. The problem can be further aggravated if landlords have the right to veto the arrangement.
- thephyber 6y ago
  > What is wrong with roommates? Perhaps it's just a reasonable limitation placed on the analysis because without it the data isn't as valuable to make conclusions from. I'm not sure that statement here is necessarily a cultural desire (although I do know people who didn't want roommates, even as young single adults).
II2II 6y ago
If anything, the pandemic illustrates why it is important to spend no more than 30% of monthly rent. People simply do not have the savings to fall back upon in times of crisis. This forces a reliance upon some form of social safety net or homelessness in the case of lost employment. It forces people to continue working in unsafe conditions if they manage to keep their job. Of course, the consequences go well beyond pandemics. People are forced to accept illegal labour practices, have minimal savings if they face a loss of income for personal reasons, and cannot plan for retirement even under normal circumstances. As for the second caveat, note that the article mentions that the average minimum wage worker has to work 97 hours per week to meet that threshold. That is effectively a two income household where at least one person is working more than 40 hours per week. That is very difficult to keep up for people with children.
- jseliger 6y ago
  The problem is, contemporary zoning laws make the construction of (relatively) inexpensive housing illegal, by mandating excess parking requirements and forbidding multifamily housing on the vast majority of usable parcels: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-rent-really-is-too-damn-high/254718 https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-ren.... Until we resolve that problem, we're going to keep getting headlines like the original one. We've regulated ourselves into ultra-high costs. Liberalization can improve matters.
  - II2II 6y ago
    I agree, yet I also find the situation ironic. The attitudes that keep wages low seem to be the same attitudes that are driving housing prices up while rejecting (or at least inhibiting) the idea of social assistance.
tibbon 6y ago
That's true - it's looking at 2BRs. But whatever metric we consistently look at over time, is something we can make long term comparisons for. And fwiw, it shows just how difficult it would be for a single parent to get by in this society.
joshuaheard 6y ago
I was going to say this. When I was working minimum wage, I had small studios or roommates. I have never rented a 2 bedroom apartment by myself, and only once did I rent a proper 1 bedroom by myself. It wasn't until I got married that I could afford a house.

eikenberry 6y ago

> No comment is made on studio apartments or having roommates. To me this is the most telling part. When you are poor you need to have one or more roommates to afford housing and this is not new. What is wrong with roommates? I do think the US could use more small/studio apartment options for those who have a bit more money and prefer to live alone. I lived in a small studio once and enjoyed it, though I usually had roommates.

dumbfoundded 6y ago
It depends on what the goal should be. Having roommates is fun when you're 20 something. Not when you're trying to support a family.
- eikenberry 6y ago
  Minimum wage is not designed to provide enough income to support a family. It it intended to prevent labor abuse.
  - worik 6y ago
    It really should be. Single people on the minimum wage would do very well. Maybe save? What is wrong with that?
    - dumbfoundded 6y ago
      The problem is the globalized economy. Ireland tax laws provide an example. Governments have little power over corporations as you can simply pick and choose which laws you want to operate under. Corporations have pushed governments to compete on favorable terms. Until governments unify basic tax and labor laws, these problems will continue.
  - dumbfoundded 6y ago
    Minimum wage is designed for whatever we choose it to be. The original intent is somewhat unclear as all it did was establish a wage floor. Debating what abuse means is a different matter.
  - Frost1x 6y ago
    It's interesting that our economy has so many positions compensating at a rate designed to prevent labor abuse.
    - eikenberry 6y ago
      Unintended consequences.
II2II 6y ago
One issue with roommates is that rental laws are rarely designed to accommodate for that situation. For example, if one person is unwilling or unable to pay the rent the other(s) have to make up the difference with no real recourse. If they don't, well, the landlord does have recourse (even if it is heavily regulated and burdensome). This is a particular problem for older people or people with limited social connections since the options are more limited. The problem can be further aggravated if landlords have the right to veto the arrangement.
thephyber 6y ago
> What is wrong with roommates? Perhaps it's just a reasonable limitation placed on the analysis because without it the data isn't as valuable to make conclusions from. I'm not sure that statement here is necessarily a cultural desire (although I do know people who didn't want roommates, even as young single adults).

II2II 6y ago

If anything, the pandemic illustrates why it is important to spend no more than 30% of monthly rent. People simply do not have the savings to fall back upon in times of crisis. This forces a reliance upon some form of social safety net or homelessness in the case of lost employment. It forces people to continue working in unsafe conditions if they manage to keep their job. Of course, the consequences go well beyond pandemics. People are forced to accept illegal labour practices, have minimal savings if they face a loss of income for personal reasons, and cannot plan for retirement even under normal circumstances. As for the second caveat, note that the article mentions that the average minimum wage worker has to work 97 hours per week to meet that threshold. That is effectively a two income household where at least one person is working more than 40 hours per week. That is very difficult to keep up for people with children.

jseliger 6y ago
The problem is, contemporary zoning laws make the construction of (relatively) inexpensive housing illegal, by mandating excess parking requirements and forbidding multifamily housing on the vast majority of usable parcels: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-rent-really-is-too-damn-high/254718 https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/the-ren.... Until we resolve that problem, we're going to keep getting headlines like the original one. We've regulated ourselves into ultra-high costs. Liberalization can improve matters.
- II2II 6y ago
  I agree, yet I also find the situation ironic. The attitudes that keep wages low seem to be the same attitudes that are driving housing prices up while rejecting (or at least inhibiting) the idea of social assistance.

tibbon 6y ago

That's true - it's looking at 2BRs. But whatever metric we consistently look at over time, is something we can make long term comparisons for. And fwiw, it shows just how difficult it would be for a single parent to get by in this society.

joshuaheard 6y ago

I was going to say this. When I was working minimum wage, I had small studios or roommates. I have never rented a 2 bedroom apartment by myself, and only once did I rent a proper 1 bedroom by myself. It wasn't until I got married that I could afford a house.