> "We're destined to suffer, if for no other reason the horrific reality that we will all be annihilated one day. Everything beautiful in the world will be take

> "We're destined to suffer, if for no other reason the horrific reality that we will all be annihilated one day. Everything beautiful in the world will be taken from us. Our existence will end. So happiness is not our default state, or even where we SHOULD get to. Why would it be?" Why should those things make you suffer? Desire causes suffering, if you don't desire to live forever, then not living forever doesn't cause suffering. Reactions to events cause suffering, if you don't see yourself as the center of the world, if you don't see the world as a separate and spiteful active agency, then you don't see things being "taken from you". If you don't value only the beautiful things, then you don't suffer from your imbalanced views. Why WOULDN'T happiness be your default state? There's nothing you can do which carries you beyond the grave, there's nothing you can build which changes anything, you can't remove bad things from the world, you can't change other people, there's no obligation to do anything, and no reason to be sad about unchangable facts. It's the learned state that you are in a competition to maximise property and money, that fame matters, that being thin or rich or pretty defines your worth, that you are important and deserve everlasting healthy youthful life, that the world isn't good enough, that are not the default state and bring suffering. > "That ain't illness, it's normal" When everyone has cancer, cancer will stop being an illness? > "but we conflate those people with others who are just very rightfully sad about the circumstances in their lives. Often these people (alcohol, food, drugs, phone) instead of making the difficult changes." And? What's wrong with helping people who aren't ill? What's wrong with helping people make difficult changes? What's wrong with supporting people who will benefit from support, helping everyone climb as high as they can with teamwork, instead of behaving like insurance companies and looking for every loophole to get out of doing that? [Edit: downvoter, you didn't even have time to read this between me clicking submit, then edit, before downvoting :rolleyes:]