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I have been to China and have family from there. I can confirm that what he is saying is correct. China plays by a different set of rules.

by stx 6y ago

hungryhobo 6y ago
A set of rules that benefitted my family and hundred of millions of others, I'm sorry that your family was left out, surely the US is taking good care of you now
bllguo 6y ago
Correct? How so? I can assure you that most Chinese citizens are not systematically disappeared, tortured, and/or killed (and enfranchisement is not as valued there as it is here). The regime has been objectively _good_ for the overwhelming majority of Chinese people. The economic growth and societal stability is what's unprecedented. This is not an excuse for the wrongs they are perpetrating, it's an acknowledgement of facts.
- stx 6y ago
  > most Chinese citizens are not systematically disappeared, tortured, and/or killed So some being systematically disappeared, tortured, and or killed is okay? Here are a few recent examples of human rights abuses in China. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-sp... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests... In China there is no freedom of speech. Foreign companies can have their IP taken from them. In China you can go to prison for years for simply saying what I am saying right now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838#:~:text=Under%20the%20same%20agreement%2C%20Hong,happened%20because%20of%20its%20unpopularity.&text=Then%2C%20last%20year%2C%20protests%20over,China%20and%20pro%2Ddemocracy%20movement https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838#:~:text=U....
  - hungryhobo 6y ago
    Did you know if the Uighur s were to take the university entrance exam in china they would get extra points due to the fact they are minority? Despite what the western media reports (in this case a opinion piece lol, where the proof is a spreadsheet) there is a system in china that actually sets minority up for success. >In China there is no freedom of speech. Foreign companies can have their IP taken from them Lolz if you look on Weibo you can find tons of voices critical of the government, https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4461664625535361 https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4461664625535361
  - bllguo 6y ago
    It's so painful to discuss China online. The claim I was responding to - that you called "correct", if you needed the reminder - was that most Chinese citizens are being systematically disappeared, tortured, and killed. It is not correct. Let's not get emotional or move the goalposts? What you are saying is factual (though you may be surprised to what lengths you can go to re: speech). I challenge you to find where I said otherwise. I was refuting OP's counterproductive hysteria. What you have mentioned here is unrelated.
    - stx 6y ago
      The original poster that you responded to and that I was saying was correct never said "most Chinese citizens are being systematically disappeared, tortured, and killed". I think you moved the goal post.
      - yorwba 6y ago
        >> But at least for some periods in history, most citizens of most Western countries were not systematically disenfranchised, monitored, disappeared, tortured, and killed. Yes, living in America while being Black, Hispanic, Arab (that's me), Muslim (ditto), etc. there's still a lot of anxiety, discrimination, and even danger. But it's incredibly naive to think the people of China are not orders of magnitude more oppressed and in constant fear for their livelihoods, lives, and loved ones. If "most citizens of most Western countries were not systematically disenfranchised, monitored, disappeared, tortured, and killed" is meant to be contrastive with China (otherwise what's the point?) then the implication is that most citizens of China do suffer from that and thus "in constant fear for their livelihoods, lives, and loved ones". Of course if you think that's terribly hyperbolic and not a charitable interpretation of the original poster's statement, then there's no actual disagreement.

I have been to China and have family from there. I can confirm that what he is saying is correct. China plays by a different set of rules.

by stx 6y ago

I have been to China and have family from there. I can confirm that what he is saying is correct. China plays by a different set of rules.

hungryhobo 6y ago

A set of rules that benefitted my family and hundred of millions of others, I'm sorry that your family was left out, surely the US is taking good care of you now

bllguo 6y ago

Correct? How so? I can assure you that most Chinese citizens are not systematically disappeared, tortured, and/or killed (and enfranchisement is not as valued there as it is here). The regime has been objectively _good_ for the overwhelming majority of Chinese people. The economic growth and societal stability is what's unprecedented. This is not an excuse for the wrongs they are perpetrating, it's an acknowledgement of facts.

stx 6y ago
> most Chinese citizens are not systematically disappeared, tortured, and/or killed So some being systematically disappeared, tortured, and or killed is okay? Here are a few recent examples of human rights abuses in China. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-spreadsheet-of-those-in-hell-how-china-corralled-uighurs-into-concentration-camps/2020/02/28/4daeca4a-58c8-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/a-sp... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests... In China there is no freedom of speech. Foreign companies can have their IP taken from them. In China you can go to prison for years for simply saying what I am saying right now. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838#:~:text=Under%20the%20same%20agreement%2C%20Hong,happened%20because%20of%20its%20unpopularity.&text=Then%2C%20last%20year%2C%20protests%20over,China%20and%20pro%2Ddemocracy%20movement https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52765838#:~:text=U....
- hungryhobo 6y ago
  Did you know if the Uighur s were to take the university entrance exam in china they would get extra points due to the fact they are minority? Despite what the western media reports (in this case a opinion piece lol, where the proof is a spreadsheet) there is a system in china that actually sets minority up for success. >In China there is no freedom of speech. Foreign companies can have their IP taken from them Lolz if you look on Weibo you can find tons of voices critical of the government, https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4461664625535361 https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4461664625535361
- bllguo 6y ago
  It's so painful to discuss China online. The claim I was responding to - that you called "correct", if you needed the reminder - was that most Chinese citizens are being systematically disappeared, tortured, and killed. It is not correct. Let's not get emotional or move the goalposts? What you are saying is factual (though you may be surprised to what lengths you can go to re: speech). I challenge you to find where I said otherwise. I was refuting OP's counterproductive hysteria. What you have mentioned here is unrelated.
  - stx 6y ago
    The original poster that you responded to and that I was saying was correct never said "most Chinese citizens are being systematically disappeared, tortured, and killed". I think you moved the goal post.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      >> But at least for some periods in history, most citizens of most Western countries were not systematically disenfranchised, monitored, disappeared, tortured, and killed. Yes, living in America while being Black, Hispanic, Arab (that's me), Muslim (ditto), etc. there's still a lot of anxiety, discrimination, and even danger. But it's incredibly naive to think the people of China are not orders of magnitude more oppressed and in constant fear for their livelihoods, lives, and loved ones. If "most citizens of most Western countries were not systematically disenfranchised, monitored, disappeared, tortured, and killed" is meant to be contrastive with China (otherwise what's the point?) then the implication is that most citizens of China do suffer from that and thus "in constant fear for their livelihoods, lives, and loved ones". Of course if you think that's terribly hyperbolic and not a charitable interpretation of the original poster's statement, then there's no actual disagreement.