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Because power dynamics play a huge role when we're talking about systemic issues, and the current system gives most favorable outcomes to white males. It's not

Because power dynamics play a huge role when we're talking about systemic issues, and the current system gives most favorable outcomes to white males. It's not that the other cases are not important, but dealing with them deserves less priority unless and until they structurally hold that power and receive the benefits.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
Why do people buy into this nonsense?
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  It has a long history of evidence supporting it. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand_LakishaJamal.pdf https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/
- davinic 6y ago
  With which part do you disagree and what is your basis for that?
  - eternalban 6y ago
    There are 2 parts here: (1) problem, and (2) remedy. The issue for myself and likeminded individuals who actually do not have a stake in the current "power dynamics" -- I could post during the Twitter hack -- is "part" (2). Where are the "scientific" and "rational" studies on the du jour mob tactics cum "remedy" to social injustice? As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. That didn't really solve anything, did it? Distorted power dynamics certainly should be addressed. There are actually quite a few elephants in the room that aren't even discussed. But please do not make a claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society". The historical verdict on this is: one group of power holders replaces another.
    - davinic 6y ago
      Where did I even come close to making the claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society"?
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      > As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. You left out Stonewall, the Haymarket Riot, and the LA riots. And maybe the Civil War or American Revolution.
      - eternalban 6y ago
        No I didn't. I can make the necessary fine distinctions.
  - dx87 6y ago
    > dealing with them deserves less priority unless and until they structurally hold that power and receive the benefits. I don't know if it's your intention, but the way you phrased it makes it sound like you don't think we should do anything about racism unless it's being done by whatever group is currently the most powerful. Considering that white people are a global minority, it doesn't seem to make much sense to say that posting anti-white/anti-semitic statements to a global audience isn't a big deal just because the person who said it happens to live in a country where they are a minority.
    - davinic 6y ago
      I am saying that we should react proportionally and that the societal context is critical.
noworriesnate 6y ago
What you're describing seems to me like a rationalization for injustice and hypocrisy. If you want to know what the power dynamics are, look at who is held accountable for their actions and who isn't.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  This, but also, the premise isn’t even valid. Race is an extremely poor predictor of power or success relative to other variables. People are just lazy with stats, driven by an ideological agenda, and selective about the studies they decide to focus on. Also, critical examinations where they are most necessary are not morally fashionable, and can even cost one their job. Even if this were true, which it isn’t, pushing this message leads to worse outcomes for the populations in question. If you are taught that the system is against you and you have no agency, the only rational response is not to try, and instead just harbor resentment. This perpetuates a vicious cycle and leaves everyone worse off. Learned helplessness is real.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

Why do people buy into this nonsense?

shadowgovt 6y ago
It has a long history of evidence supporting it. https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand_LakishaJamal.pdf https://cos.gatech.edu/facultyres/Diversity_Studies/Bertrand... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/
davinic 6y ago
With which part do you disagree and what is your basis for that?
- eternalban 6y ago
  There are 2 parts here: (1) problem, and (2) remedy. The issue for myself and likeminded individuals who actually do not have a stake in the current "power dynamics" -- I could post during the Twitter hack -- is "part" (2). Where are the "scientific" and "rational" studies on the du jour mob tactics cum "remedy" to social injustice? As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. That didn't really solve anything, did it? Distorted power dynamics certainly should be addressed. There are actually quite a few elephants in the room that aren't even discussed. But please do not make a claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society". The historical verdict on this is: one group of power holders replaces another.
  - davinic 6y ago
    Where did I even come close to making the claim that mobilized mob squads are a "proven remedy to fix power dynamic's distortions in society"?
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    > As a spectator it is reminiscent of previous attempts at "remedy", notably the Cultural Revolution by Chairman Mao. You left out Stonewall, the Haymarket Riot, and the LA riots. And maybe the Civil War or American Revolution.
    - eternalban 6y ago
      No I didn't. I can make the necessary fine distinctions.
- dx87 6y ago
  > dealing with them deserves less priority unless and until they structurally hold that power and receive the benefits. I don't know if it's your intention, but the way you phrased it makes it sound like you don't think we should do anything about racism unless it's being done by whatever group is currently the most powerful. Considering that white people are a global minority, it doesn't seem to make much sense to say that posting anti-white/anti-semitic statements to a global audience isn't a big deal just because the person who said it happens to live in a country where they are a minority.
  - davinic 6y ago
    I am saying that we should react proportionally and that the societal context is critical.

noworriesnate 6y ago

What you're describing seems to me like a rationalization for injustice and hypocrisy. If you want to know what the power dynamics are, look at who is held accountable for their actions and who isn't.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
This, but also, the premise isn’t even valid. Race is an extremely poor predictor of power or success relative to other variables. People are just lazy with stats, driven by an ideological agenda, and selective about the studies they decide to focus on. Also, critical examinations where they are most necessary are not morally fashionable, and can even cost one their job. Even if this were true, which it isn’t, pushing this message leads to worse outcomes for the populations in question. If you are taught that the system is against you and you have no agency, the only rational response is not to try, and instead just harbor resentment. This perpetuates a vicious cycle and leaves everyone worse off. Learned helplessness is real.