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> Barr suggested that Apple iPhones “wouldn’t be sold (in China) if they were impervious to penetration by Chinese authorities.” He suggested American tech comp

> Barr suggested that Apple iPhones “wouldn’t be sold (in China) if they were impervious to penetration by Chinese authorities.” He suggested American tech companies were imposing a “double standard.”

fouc 6y ago
IIRC, last year Apple setup a server within China for holding the iCloud security keys for the Chinese-owned iPhones? Definitely some collaboration there..
- filoleg 6y ago
  Well, that just makes it sound like iPhones sold in China were vulnerable for penetration by Chinese authorities because the decryption keys for those were stored in China, not that iPhones overall were vulnerable. Which makes that whole argument by Barr very weak.
- kube-system 6y ago
  iCloud in China is operated by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data Industry Co Ltd, which is owned by the Guizhou provincial government. As I understand, it isn't Apple's servers at all. China has some strict protectionist policies for a fairly decent list industries, not just tech. Many foreign companies that operate in China have to do so through joint ventures or other partnerships with domestic Chinese companies. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/11/WS5a56a3cca3102e5b17374107.html http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/11/WS5a56a3cca3102e5b1...
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    The list of sectors that require joint ventures and majority Chinese ownership has been decreasing over time. Most sectors do not have such restrictions nowadays. For several decades, there has been a general trend - which was greatly accelerated by China's WTO accession - of barriers to trade decreasing in China. In popular discussions of China's trade and economic policies in the West, there's rarely any recognition of this fact. Average tariffs have been reduced to about 3.4%, which is about the same level as the US applied as recently as the mid-1990s. Much of the state sector was privatized and the majority of the economy is now private. Intellectual property enforcement is way up - it's been completely overhauled in just the last 6 years, with specialized courts set up and a very large volume of IP cases being heard every year now. There have been huge changes, which most of the public in the West has little to no idea bout, and which find no reflection in the popular discussion.
- threatofrain 6y ago
  But what about Apple's end-to-end encrypted messaging?
mikece 6y ago
Meanwhile Barr is insisting that all encryption tools, in order to be legal in the US, need to give copies of the keys to the government... you know to keep us safe from terrorists. And tax cheats. And pirated movie bootleggers.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  Bingo. It's worthwhile to ask to what degree U.S. corporations should be doing business in Chinese markets, but it's also worthwhile keeping in mind that no U.S. administration is a purely disinterested party when they're raising these criticisms -- and this administration in particular, and this U.S. attorney general in particular, has a pretty strong track record of deliberately stoking partisan flames and finding "enemies" both within and without. China is the chosen foreign enemy, but tech companies are increasingly the chosen domestic enemy.
  - xbar 6y ago
    At least he complained that there was a double-standard where the CCP gets the data and the US doesn't. We know he wants the US to get the data, too. We know that neither should.
- cdubzzz 6y ago
  I mean, he's clearly not arguing _against_ backdoors in that quote. He's basically saying, "China gets backdoors, we want them too."
- bart_spoon 6y ago
  I’m not sure how that invalidates the point. If companies like Apple are going to declare themselves defenders of privacy in America, and then turn around and give China what it wants in order for access to their markets, then they have indeed become pawns.

fouc 6y ago

IIRC, last year Apple setup a server within China for holding the iCloud security keys for the Chinese-owned iPhones? Definitely some collaboration there..

filoleg 6y ago
Well, that just makes it sound like iPhones sold in China were vulnerable for penetration by Chinese authorities because the decryption keys for those were stored in China, not that iPhones overall were vulnerable. Which makes that whole argument by Barr very weak.
kube-system 6y ago
iCloud in China is operated by Guizhou-Cloud Big Data Industry Co Ltd, which is owned by the Guizhou provincial government. As I understand, it isn't Apple's servers at all. China has some strict protectionist policies for a fairly decent list industries, not just tech. Many foreign companies that operate in China have to do so through joint ventures or other partnerships with domestic Chinese companies. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/11/WS5a56a3cca3102e5b17374107.html http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/11/WS5a56a3cca3102e5b1...
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  The list of sectors that require joint ventures and majority Chinese ownership has been decreasing over time. Most sectors do not have such restrictions nowadays. For several decades, there has been a general trend - which was greatly accelerated by China's WTO accession - of barriers to trade decreasing in China. In popular discussions of China's trade and economic policies in the West, there's rarely any recognition of this fact. Average tariffs have been reduced to about 3.4%, which is about the same level as the US applied as recently as the mid-1990s. Much of the state sector was privatized and the majority of the economy is now private. Intellectual property enforcement is way up - it's been completely overhauled in just the last 6 years, with specialized courts set up and a very large volume of IP cases being heard every year now. There have been huge changes, which most of the public in the West has little to no idea bout, and which find no reflection in the popular discussion.
threatofrain 6y ago
But what about Apple's end-to-end encrypted messaging?

mikece 6y ago

Meanwhile Barr is insisting that all encryption tools, in order to be legal in the US, need to give copies of the keys to the government... you know to keep us safe from terrorists. And tax cheats. And pirated movie bootleggers.

chipotle_coyote 6y ago
Bingo. It's worthwhile to ask to what degree U.S. corporations should be doing business in Chinese markets, but it's also worthwhile keeping in mind that no U.S. administration is a purely disinterested party when they're raising these criticisms -- and this administration in particular, and this U.S. attorney general in particular, has a pretty strong track record of deliberately stoking partisan flames and finding "enemies" both within and without. China is the chosen foreign enemy, but tech companies are increasingly the chosen domestic enemy.
- xbar 6y ago
  At least he complained that there was a double-standard where the CCP gets the data and the US doesn't. We know he wants the US to get the data, too. We know that neither should.
cdubzzz 6y ago
I mean, he's clearly not arguing _against_ backdoors in that quote. He's basically saying, "China gets backdoors, we want them too."
bart_spoon 6y ago
I’m not sure how that invalidates the point. If companies like Apple are going to declare themselves defenders of privacy in America, and then turn around and give China what it wants in order for access to their markets, then they have indeed become pawns.